DACS4
Hey guys. I've been up here a bit and continue to read up on the Submersive. As a current PB13 owner we are more than happy with bass in our 2000 cubic foot finished basement.  Previous subs include the MFW15, Def tech Supercube Reference, and the older SVS PC Ultra (12) The PB13 is, by far, the best sub we've ever had in our setup.  I can't help but wonder if the Submersive will produce even better results in our setup/room.

So the obvious diffs here are:

- ported SVS vs. Sealed Submersive
- one 13" driver vs. two 15 inch
- SVS amp vs. Submersive amp

Our PB13 is located in the right front corner of the room.  Since it's a finished basement....concrete floor and walls all around.  The room has only 1 opening to the stairwell.

Can we expect a significant enough improvement to justify the $500 diff. Expecting i can sell our 4 month old PB13 for nearly what we paid.
Given the almost sealed room., the small size(ie. 2000 cubic ft.), and corner placement do people think there is a good enough arguement here to plant the seed with the wife?  I am always upgrading stuff but have really settled in and decided to not change the following;

- Rocket 850 fronts
- Rocket BIGFOOT Center
- Rocket RS300 surrounds
- Cinenova Grande 5 amp

The PB13 is expendable but only if the diff is $500 or less and the improement is really noticeable. WAF is a bit of a concern but if it truely makes a difference I think I can make this work.

Any and all feedback ismost welcomed here.

Thanks,

Dave
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mfine
It makes a difference, but will it be worth the $500 (plus?) is not something anyone but you can really answer.

Do you have any in room measurements?  Do you ever feel as if you are pushing the SVS to its limits?  Is there something you feel the SVS is lacking?

In the small sealed room, the SubMersive will give you great extension into the single digits and deliver upper bass slam as well as anything out there.  I would expect the new SVS is doing a pretty good job in that room too, so I can't say how much you would notice the difference and what kind of value you would place on it.  If you still had the MFW or the Ultra-12 that would have been a little easier to answer. 

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DACS4
No room measurements yet as the SVS is rather new and I've yet to get REW up and running on my new laptop.  The truth is we have rarely pushed the Ultra to it's limits.  It continues to WOW.....but there's that other side of me that just simply has to know that we have the best we can afford.

The other variable here is that we may be moving within the year so maybe it is best to wait things out.  Once we land i can always decide if the Submersive will make sense for us.

I'm curious if anyone up here has moved from the SVS PB13 to the Submersive and, if so, what were the most noticeable diffs?  Both are great subs but the Submersive appears to have more slam and sound like it can dig a bit deeper.

Thx,

Dave
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dbart
I have a PB-13 Ultra also and my room is the same size & construction as yours.

I too have been pondering the question if a submersive will do better in my room.
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Utnapishtim
I, too, have an SVS PB13 Ultra which has been the best sub in my 3,100 sq ft. sealed room yet; however, it isn't playing with the Audyssey in my AVR (pre/pro) well and I'm not getting the slam and mid-bass percussion I'm thinking a well-designed sealed sub will give me. Also, I'd love to know what 10hz feels like!

From the posts by RossandWendy (sp?) I'm getting the idea that a SubMersive will be an appreciable upgrade - considering he had dual pb13u's and a Conquest prior to his SubMersive. I'm aware that I might give up a little SPL in the tune area, but should gain below and above that point across the board.

Over at AVS, craigsub made a point that I think Mark had been making for some time about how well a speaker can articulate multiple frequencies at a time (vs. how well it can produce a single sine-wave). This is where I'm thinking the well-designed and therefore not heavily-eq'd SubMersive will have greater sq over more of the frequency range.

Just thinking out loud...
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JimP
Utnapishtim,

If you follow (Doug) council's post at AVS, you'll find that there is apparantly a problem with how Audyssey in his Denon 3808 reads the falloff on PB13 subs causing errors in filter calculations.  He wound up getting Audyssey Pro and that seems to have worked out the problem.
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Utnapishtim
Hey JimP,<br>Thanks for that--I've actually been following Counsil's threads, but am unhappy about having to buy Audyssey's Pro kit for $700!  I'd rather put that $$ into a superior sub. <br><br>What I don't understand is whether having the Pro kit is like having a QSC-30 or similar EQ device?  If so, then it might not be a bad idea seeing as I only have a Behringer 1124 BFD.  <br><br>Any insight on that?<br><br>BTW, do you have a SubMersive?<br><br>Thanks again.
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JimP
Utnapishtim,

Perhaps I should have given more detail.  The problem Audyssey was having with the Ultra 13 was that it wasn't detecting the roll off correctly because it wasn't steep enough.   I think it had to be more than that as it was adding way more than the advertised 10db adjustments.  Ordinarily, a more gentile rolloff is more desireable than a steep one.  It was the audyssey implementation in the Denon and some Onkyo receivers that was the problem, not the sub.   I don't think the same thing is possible with the Submersive as from what I've read it has a DSP control that would prevent those peaks regardless of what Audyssey is trying to do.


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CintiAudio

I've just gone through the same thing. I've had a PB13 Ultra for about a year and a half (my first real sub). I eq'd it through my Denon 5308's Audyssey and it was OK, but I wondered if there was more to be had. Other than the Denon's auto program I didn't do any other equalization. I know a lot of folks here and in the AVS forum spend a lot of time tweaking their subs. That's just not enjoyable for me--it's too much like what I do for work. So I ordered SVS's AS-EQ1 and used its Audyssey to equalize the PB13. It made a HUGE difference in sound quality (to me). It was an upgrade well worth the price.

But I want a Seaton sub.

So I just ordered a pair of Submersives and I'll be selling the Ultra. Here's why: after almost two years of reading every opinion I could find about this tier of subwoofers I came across several AVS owners who wondered if the Seaton would be better for them. I have not found ONE Seaton owner who wondered if they should get an AVS. It seems like if Seaton owners long for a new sub it's another (usually un-invented yet) Seaton.

Anyway that's the thought process I went through. After studying all of the charts and graphs and reading the sealed versus ported debates you still won't know the difference between the subs until you hear them in your room. I can't wait to hear mine.

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itai
I think most submersive owners secretly want a Terraform... but that's just my opinion.

I have listened to the SVS Ultras (in a double and a triple 13 Ultras in a small room) and I still think that the Submersive offers a better solution. It does cost more then a single SVS13, so you need to decide if its worth it.

Just to echo a previous comment, I have yet to find anyone that upgraded AWAY from a Seaton sub.

Regards,
Itai
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Utnapishtim
That's helpful info guys--I've been trying to get a hold of Mark to order mine...

I've done the same pouring over all the posts, etc. and come to conclusion that Seaton knows subs on a whole 'nuther level.  I want to enjoy that level of home theater and music! 

"Can't wait" is an understatement--feeling giddy like a school girl is more accurate!
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rtkba556
I know how you feel. I had been researching for what seems like forever and kept coming back to the Submersive. I know if I had bought anything else I would always have wondered what if. I ordered a Submersive about a week ago and cant wait for it to arrive. This is my first real subwoofer so I'm pretty excited.

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Utnapishtim
Excellent!

Any word on how long until you ship?

I am hoping to get with Mark a.s.a.p. to get in the cue myself!

What other subs have you had experience with?
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rtkba556
This is my first real sub. I got a couple of Polk 303 something or others with my Polk speakers. Mark said originally mine should ship between the 15th&17th of June.
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Utnapishtim

Great news for you!  You appear to be in for a whole new realm of .1 experience, and you're only days away from getting there!  Make sure you report back with a review...

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mfine
itai wrote:
I think most submersive owners secretly want a Terraform...


You seriously think anyone wants just one?
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MikeDuke
mfine wrote:
itai wrote:
I think most submersive owners secretly want a Terraform...


You seriously think anyone wants just one?

Just like Lays potato chips or chocolate chip cookies.  One will never do unless the situation forces it.  These subs shows us the self restraint filter we claim to have really was never there to begin with
I simply love this stuff.
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Mark_Seaton
DACS4 wrote:
Hey guys. I've been up here a bit and continue to read up on the Submersive. As a current PB13 owner we are more than happy with bass in our 2000 cubic foot finished basement.  Previous subs include the MFW15, Def tech Supercube Reference, and the older SVS PC Ultra (12) The PB13 is, by far, the best sub we've ever had in our setup.  I can't help but wonder if the Submersive will produce even better results in our setup/room.

So the obvious diffs here are:

- ported SVS vs. Sealed Submersive
- one 13" driver vs. two 15 inch
- SVS amp vs. Submersive amp

Our PB13 is located in the right front corner of the room.  Since it's a finished basement....concrete floor and walls all around.  The room has only 1 opening to the stairwell.

Can we expect a significant enough improvement to justify the $500 diff. Expecting i can sell our 4 month old PB13 for nearly what we paid.
Given the almost sealed room., the small size(ie. 2000 cubic ft.), and corner placement do people think there is a good enough arguement here to plant the seed with the wife?  I am always upgrading stuff but have really settled in and decided to not change the following;

- Rocket 850 fronts
- Rocket BIGFOOT Center
- Rocket RS300 surrounds
- Cinenova Grande 5 amp

The PB13 is expendable but only if the diff is $500 or less and the improement is really noticeable. WAF is a bit of a concern but if it truely makes a difference I think I can make this work.

Any and all feedback ismost welcomed here.

Thanks,

Dave


Hi Dave,

I have been checking in and seeing the very useful responses from others here while working to get more SubMersives and speakers shipped.

I do believe that in a room such as yours there would be a notable advantage to the SubMersive, especially in overall intensity of the sound and that ever illusive, subjective "attack."  The VLF difference is there as well, but more as a sneaky, subtle surprise that you enjoy as a nice addition, not as the primary reason for owning the SubMersive.  The subtle, subjective impression of what sounds like a "bottomless" extension in a small room is more noticed as a sense of ease, immediacy and larger scale than a huge increase in VLF. 

Of course I guess you can shelf up the low end 10dB and get even more of the deep stuff, but that wasn't a primary goal when the SubMersive was conceived.

Hope that helps!
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Mark_Seaton
Utnapishtim wrote:
That's helpful info guys--I've been trying to get a hold of Mark to order mine...

I've done the same pouring over all the posts, etc. and come to conclusion that Seaton knows subs on a whole 'nuther level.  I want to enjoy that level of home theater and music! 

"Can't wait" is an understatement--feeling giddy like a school girl is more accurate!


Typing you an e-mail right now.


Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Utnapishtim
Mark_Seaton wrote:

I do believe that in a room such as yours there would be a notable advantage to the SubMersive, especially in overall intensity of the sound and that ever illusive, subjective "attack."  The VLF difference is there as well, but more as a sneaky, subtle surprise that you enjoy as a nice addition, not as the primary reason for owning the SubMersive.  The subtle, subjective impression of what sounds like a "bottomless" extension in a small room is more noticed as a sense of ease, immediacy and larger scale than a huge increase in VLF. 

Of course I guess you can shelf up the low end 10dB and get even more of the deep stuff, but that wasn't a primary goal when the SubMersive was conceived.

Yes!  Those are exactly the hopes I have for the SubMersive in my 3,100 cu. ft. room (3 sides & floor concrete, sealed)!!!

Just last night I was switching between having Audyssey on and having it off, and the room comp settings on the SVS as per Doug's (Counsil) suggestion and I'm just frustrated that I am getting the Ultra to make a very unhappy sharp noise on the attack of the "skidoosh" KFP scene.  Other scenes in that movie are doing better with Audyssey off now and backing down my AVR sub gain (from +3.5 to +2.0). 

Still, I'm very frustrated that I don't have the headroom to handle those special scenes (for e.g. Iron Man and Hulk, etc.).  I hate having to wonder if I'm going to be hit with some sharp pop or ugly fart on a demanding scene.  That's not what I spend the $$ for...

So, I'm looking forward to your email Mark--can't wait to get into "SubMersive sound"!
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MikeDuke
I sort of know what you mean about a sub not handling a particular scene.  For me, it was Terminator 3.  There were some parts with my old sub, JM Labs SW900, that I could tell it was struggling badly and distorting.  Now, I don't have that happen at all.
With the SubMersive, it is just effortless output and clarity in my room.

I simply love this stuff.
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audioguy
I have just this moment placed an order for two submersives to replace my dual SVS PC-13's and dual SVS PB12-Plus/2's in a 3800 cubic foot room.   I never could get all four subs to integrate so have only been running with the dual PC-13's.. They sound VERY good but if you have an addiction to clean, tight and impactful bass (and I do) , there is no such thing as "too much woof".  If two submersives turns out not to be enough (I can't imagine!!!), I eventually will get two more and stack them.  Then, if eight  15 inch drivers can't give me what I want, I will sell it all and listen to headphones (NOT!!)

So...SVS subs for sale!!

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MikeDuke
audioguy wrote:
I have just this moment placed an order for two submersives to replace my dual SVS PC-13's and dual SVS PB12-Plus/2's in a 3800 cubic foot room.   I never could get all four subs to integrate so have only been running with the dual PC-13's.. They sound VERY good but if you have an addiction to clean, tight and impactful bass (and I do) , there is no such thing as "too much woof".  If two submersives turns out not to be enough (I can't imagine!!!), I eventually will get two more and stack them.  Then, if eight  15 inch drivers can't give me what I want, I will sell it all and listen to headphones (NOT!!)

So...SVS subs for sale!!


Congrats.  Looking very much to hearing your thoughts on the dual setup.  I have a feeling that two in a 3800cf room will make you happy....
for now.
I simply love this stuff.
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Sean_W_Smith
Its defintely an addiciton.....

Sean

Silicon Valley, CA and Huntsville, UT

and Formerly Raleigh, NC. Loving the mild weather, hating the cost of EVERYTHING!
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mfine
If four SubMersibes don't do it for you, try adding four Terraform XL's before you go the headphone route. Headphones suck.
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