chayut
Hi forum member..

I will soon be the owner of Catalyst LCRs.

I am planning to place all Cat LCRs on their side ( horizontally) under the screen ( 158" 16:9 screen).

Would this set up be a bad idea?

I understand that most cat owners place their center on the side.

what about left and right speakers? 

will there be any different sonically?



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fugueness
I used to have the center horizontal, but now have it vertical behind an AT screen, which I much prefer. Is there any way you can get an AT setup? I would expect that in most rooms, having the L and R vertical is going to be optimal. Maybe Mark can chime in.

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chayut
hi fugueness..

Thank you for the input.

It is difficult to go AT route since I already purchase Dalite HCHP 2.4 gain.

I think screen that big require high gain fabric.

Is there any reason theoretically that vertical placement is better than horizontal?

Fugueness, how much better would you say your center is vertically placed? 10%?

and may i ask you this question, at the very first stage  I see you use subdude as a stand for LCRs, Is there any different when you not using it no more? Does it sound better on subdude?

Thanks 

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fugueness
I have a 13ft wide 16:9 screen with AT 0.8 gain and it's fine

The Catalyst works well as a horizontal center below the screen, but AT/vertical center is going to be significantly better.

Having the center vertical is at least a 100% improvement. Dialogue intelligibility is superior and the front soundstage is utterly seamless. Once you go AT, there's no going back...

I would recommend a proper stand for the Catalysts and make sure the tweeters are at or just above your listening height. The subdudes were just temporary.
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getech
Hi Peter....I would second that thought about having good set of stands for your Cats.  I bought a pair of used Anchor Sound stands over on AVS that were custom made for the Cat12's.  They bring the tweeter up to ear level perfectly and they are rock solid in holding the speaker...little or no vibration.  Of course Mark's stands are a perfect fit for the Cats and are quite solid as well as more elegant looking!
Greg
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chayut
Thank all for the input.

I hope Mark is reading this thread and could give us what he though about horizontal placement of LCRs Cats.

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junglesun

There is a theory:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs

Though it's all about center speaker, I think it's applicable here.

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Mark_Seaton
chayut wrote:
Thank all for the input.

I hope Mark is reading this thread and could give us what he though about horizontal placement of LCRs Cats.


Hi chayut,

The Catalyst 12C is designed to also work very well when set on its side.  The differences fugueness speaks of has much more to do with the height and location of the speaker relative to the ground or cabinets below.  The majority of this difference is related to the effects at the lower end of the speaker's range (below ~500Hz) which is greatly affected by the placement of the speaker in the room.  This is where the various room correction systems, such as ARC, can be very useful to balance these differences which occur in most all rooms to some degree.

By far the AT screen and identical speaker locations is the most ideal for sound, but once the solid screen is decided, the best matching center, especially when it's the same speaker designed to also operate on its side, that will be the best way to go, and I've heard it sound great many times over.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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chayut
Hi Mark..

Thank you for your response.

I guess this is a green light for me to place All Cats LCRs Horizontally under the screen.

Would Behringer DCX2496 be a good choice for  3 Cats LCRs in this placement (horizontally placed?)

Mark, What would be the optimal angle for 3 Cats LCRs?

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chayut
Quote:

There is a theory:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs

Though it's all about center speaker, I think it's applicable here.




Thank you for such an information Junglesun.
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Mark_Seaton
junglesun wrote:

There is a theory:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs

Though it's all about center speaker, I think it's applicable here.

Hi junglesun,


While applicable to a degree, they don't test anything like the condition of the Catalyst speakers.  The WTMW B&W is the closest, but still uses a much higher crossover vs. woofer spacing.  The uniformity of the speaker's behavior in horizontal and vertical orientations is one of the biggest benefits of the 3 way design I use in the Catalyst products.  With the box, driver and DSP crossovers, I am able to maintain a low enough crossover to make for very small differences between the vertical and horizontal axis, with the differences being much smaller in magnitude and over a narrower and less problematic frequency range (maybe 100-500Hz, and orders of magnitude less variation than most designs).  The impact of the exact location of the speaker in the room is multiples the H/V difference.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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audioguy
While I would prefer for both cosmetic and acoustic reasons to have the center behind an AT screen, I don't care to go to all of the trouble and expense of replacing my screen.

I can attest to Mark's statement about uniformity of sound.  Since my center is not behind my screen but below it, it is in the horizontal position. I have played 2 channel stereo in some of the surround modes of the Integra 80.2 and the center sounds (for all practical purposes) exactly like the left and right - particularly since I am using Audyssey on all speakers.

I would not worry about it. 



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chayut
Hi audioguy..

Your attest really make thing much easy for me.

May I ask you this?

What do you think about using Behringer DCX2496 with Cats Trio?

Would it be better than audyssey or even ARC from anthem?

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JohnnyV
Two different animals. The dcx is the cheap Swiss army/survival knife of processors. Its remarkably powerful yet requires separate measurement gear and the patience to learn its proper use.

The others you mention are automated room correction tools/features.

Both approaches can yield good or horrible results depending on how they are applied.

Personally I'd take the dcx any day over the expensive room correction products but I also have measurement tools. Both approaches have their place.
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chayut
Quote:
Two different animals. The dcx is the cheap Swiss army/survival knife of processors. Its remarkably powerful yet requires separate measurement gear and the patience to learn its proper use.

The others you mention are automated room correction tools/features.

Both approaches can yield good or horrible results depending on how they are applied.

Personally I'd take the dcx any day over the expensive room correction products but I also have measurement tools. Both approaches have their place.


Hi Johnny V

Could you elaborate the measurement tools you mentioned?

What tools do I need to have?

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JohnnyV
A good mic + preamp + measurement software. I had been using rew but also have a couple speaker development focused sw packages that are painful to use. The new Dayton tool looks fun. As well.

Using something like the dcx can get you in trouble quick if you don't know what your doing. Id recommend not taking that path unless you have mark set things up.

Id start with your surround processors automated corrections and see what ya get. My last room benefitted from a little eq help. My new room sounds fantastic with none.

Know that you don't NEED any eq for the cats. It will be room dependant and if there is room for improvment that will be the general case for whatever speaker you pick.

In the end something like a dcx is cheap enough to at least try and experiment with. If its not for you there is little relative investment. 90% of what you'd want to do your surround processor will probably accomplish
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audioguy
I don't know what SSP you are using but I would recommend one with Audyssey X32 which can be a very reasonably priced solution. Couple that with Audyssey Pro and not only will you get a crossover solution but also great room correction. 

And unless you have a perfect room (particularly in the bass region), I would disagree that you don't NEED room correction.

I tried another crossover solution first (a QSC DSP-30 which Mark recommends) and it worked quite well but it did not do as good a job for room correction, and as noted above, I think it is mandatory for 90+% of all rooms.

And if you go the Audyssey route, there is a thread on AVS (which must have 5000 posts!) which can provide excellent guidance.
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chayut
Hi audioguy...

I actually owned AS-EQ1 which I previously plan to control my 2 submersives.
 
But I am now leaning toward QSC DSP-30 since it had XLR connector and might be the right choice since Mark always endorse it.

The AS-EQ1 does not have XLR connector and I am afraid that the Humming issue might occur.

I understand that you use Tact with Cats 2 channels and I have read that you really enjoy the combination.

Can Behringer DCX2496 with Cats Trios yield the same result as Tact with 2 Cats ?

Is there anything others option to consider? ( which is not so expensive)




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audioguy
I used the Audyssey sub EQ and had no hum issues?
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