Blackdevil77
I've been looking at some of these new pre/pros coming out and am curious if they will be an improvement over my current processor, which is the Integra DHC-80.3. The 2 processors in question are the Marantz AV7702, which I've read sounds better than the AV8801 somehow, and the new Emotiva XMC-1, which is supposed to have Dirac Live room correction, which I've also read is better than XT32. I don't think I'm gonna be using ATMOS because my ceilings are already extremely low and my room is already cluttered so more speakers I don't think is an option. Unless there would be a substantial improvement with height speakers and using atmos, I can't see myself doing it, so it basically comes down to which sounds better, the AV 7702 with XT32, or the XMC-1 with Dirac. The Dirac for the XMC-1 isn't supposed to be available until December 1st so I guess we are left to guess how it compares to XT32 for now. What do you guys think? Mark, what do you think about this?
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audioguy
We just did a comparison of the 80.3 vs Denon 5200 which is the first cousin of 7702 which I have on order. Somehow Audyssey has been greatly improved. Greatly.

I would recommend against the Emotiva piece since it has NO upgradibility. So if u ever decide to add more speakers, you won't be able to.

And I would guess that the new improved Audyssey will be close to
If not equal to Dirac on the Emo piece
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Blackdevil77
audioguy wrote:
We just did a comparison of the 80.3 vs Denon 5200 which is the first cousin of 7702 which I have on order. Somehow Audyssey has been greatly improved. Greatly. I would recommend against the Emotiva piece since it has NO upgradibility. So if u ever decide to add more speakers, you won't be able to. And I would guess that the new improved Audyssey will be close to If not equal to Dirac on the Emo piece


That's very interesting. I wonder what they did different with Audyssey? What about it did you notice that improved? The in room response? midrange clarity, low end etc? 

Currently I'm only running 5.2 channel set up. I have the wires in the walls for a 7.2 channel set up, but I simply don't have the room in my current room for any more speakers, mostly due to the ridiculously low ceilings. The idea of Atmos is very intriguing to me, but I simply don't have the room right now. The distance from the top of my Cat 12C's, which are mounted on my SubM HP's, to the ceiling is only about 2 feet or so.

So basically it comes down to sound quality. From what I've been reading, the hardware in the Emotiva piece is a bit better than what is in the Marantz. I'm curious to see what the AV8802 has in it. 
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audioguy
Blackdevil77 wrote:
That's very interesting. I wonder what they did different with Audyssey? What about it did you notice that improved? The in room response? midrange clarity, low end etc? 


Three things:  (1) Better bass response.(Visually from OmniMic and audibly)  The previous versions of Audyssey have always made the sub 20hz response worse than without Audyssey.  (2) For this first time, I have not had to diddle with the sub distances to get a smooth transition between the subs and mains (3) better midrange.

Quote:
So basically it comes down to sound quality. From what I've been reading, the hardware in the Emotiva piece is a bit better than what is in the Marantz. I'm curious to see what the AV8802 has in it.


We just did a blind and level matched hardware comparison (no room correction)between the over $20,000 Datasat RS20i and my Integra 80.2.  The differences were such that we could not consistently identify which was which.  The key differences between these SSP's is the room correction product.  We will do the same with the 7702.  Now that I've heard 7702 and the new version of Audyssey , I would have purchased it (and not the Emotiva XMC-1) even if I had no interest in Atmos. 
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balbol
I have owned a few decent devices, Yamaha Z11 for a couple of years then a Denon 4810 (Audyssey XT) for also a couple of years then now a Marantz AV-8801(Audyssey XT32) for around 7-8 months. before that had 3 Onkyos. 

I like the 8801 the most, love the XLR connection as i am using it for all my speakers, all connected to my 3 Emotiva's 2 XPA-5's and an XPA-3.

The XT32 in the Marantz is far superior to the previous Denon i had, and i think i will keep the unit till at least another 2 years. i did notice a significant increase in detail clarity compared to the Denon. 

Surrounds were more live if i could say so and LFE is more controlled and focused rather than boomy or exaggerated. i can even notice my surround backs for the first time without raising their level! i am not using dynamic eq or audyssey volume. 

Blackdevil since you have a full Seaton setup that uses XLR connections i would suggest you use them that way. at least for me when i went all RCA to XLR i did notice a difference and also there was no more humming. 

If you can wait for a couple of months then you can at least see/test the new Marantz AV-8802. which i think will be amazing. it will also have Atmos and Auro 3D. 

[biggrin]


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Blackdevil77
audioguy wrote:
Blackdevil77 wrote:
That's very interesting. I wonder what they did different with Audyssey? What about it did you notice that improved? The in room response? midrange clarity, low end etc? 


Three things:  (1) Better bass response.(Visually from OmniMic and audibly)  The previous versions of Audyssey have always made the sub 20hz response worse than without Audyssey.  (2) For this first time, I have not had to diddle with the sub distances to get a smooth transition between the subs and mains (3) better midrange.

Quote:
So basically it comes down to sound quality. From what I've been reading, the hardware in the Emotiva piece is a bit better than what is in the Marantz. I'm curious to see what the AV8802 has in it.


We just did a blind and level matched hardware comparison (no room correction)between the over $20,000 Datasat RS20i and my Integra 80.2.  The differences were such that we could not consistently identify which was which.  The key differences between these SSP's is the room correction product.  We will do the same with the 7702.  Now that I've heard 7702 and the new version of Audyssey , I would have purchased it (and not the Emotiva XMC-1) even if I had no interest in Atmos. 



The Datastat RS20i is my lottery processor for when I win big and have a huge room with 32 channels of sound lol. You didn't try to compare them with room correction? (Dirac vs. Audyssey)? 

The main reason I even thought to look at the XMC-1 was because of Dirac. That was before you told me that XT32 had improved. 
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Blackdevil77
balbol wrote:
I have owned a few decent devices, Yamaha Z11 for a couple of years then a Denon 4810 (Audyssey XT) for also a couple of years then now a Marantz AV-8801(Audyssey XT32) for around 7-8 months. before that had 3 Onkyos. 

I like the 8801 the most, love the XLR connection as i am using it for all my speakers, all connected to my 3 Emotiva's 2 XPA-5's and an XPA-3.

The XT32 in the Marantz is far superior to the previous Denon i had, and i think i will keep the unit till at least another 2 years. i did notice a significant increase in detail clarity compared to the Denon. 

Surrounds were more live if i could say so and LFE is more controlled and focused rather than boomy or exaggerated. i can even notice my surround backs for the first time without raising their level! i am not using dynamic eq or audyssey volume. 

Blackdevil since you have a full Seaton setup that uses XLR connections i would suggest you use them that way. at least for me when i went all RCA to XLR i did notice a difference and also there was no more humming. 

If you can wait for a couple of months then you can at least see/test the new Marantz AV-8802. which i think will be amazing. it will also have Atmos and Auro 3D. 

[biggrin]





The AV8801 is definitely an awesome processor. Reason I didn't get it was because my DHC-80.3 was brand new at the time, I heard there wasn't enough of a difference to get it, and that it would have been more of a "sideways" move. My DHC-80.3 also has XT32 like the AV8801. I'm guessing the AV8802 has the new revised version of XT32 that audioguy was talking about that the AV7702 has. 
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Nabs17
Since you have an 80.3, have you looked at the 80.6?

http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DHC-80.6&class=Preamplifier&p=i

However it has Accueq instead of Audyssey...not sure how you'd feel about that.
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Blackdevil77

Nabs17 wrote:
Since you have an 80.3, have you looked at the 80.6?

http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DHC-80.6&class=Preamplifier&p=i

However it has Accueq instead of Audyssey...not sure how you'd feel about that.


Yes I have, and it not having Audyssey is the deal breaker. Atmos takes a lot of processing power so to save on processing power, Integra dropped Audyssey XT32 in favor of more processing power for Atmos, which I most likely am not even going to use. I was looking at something new and different anyway and heard great things about Dirac, which Mark uses to demonstrate his Cat 12C's so when I saw the Emotiva XMC-1 was gonna have Dirac and is affordable, I got excited. Now Audioguy is saying Audyssey is improved in the newer models of the Marantz processors so I'm bouncing back and forth. I was pm-ed that Emotiva isn't really liked in these parts. From everything I looked at, it seemed like the XMC-1 looked like a piece of decent quality, but what do I know. I never owned anything by Emotiva. 

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audioguy
Blackdevil77 wrote:

Nabs17 wrote:
Since you have an 80.3, have you looked at the 80.6?

http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DHC-80.6&class=Preamplifier&p=i

However it has Accueq instead of Audyssey...not sure how you'd feel about that.


Yes I have, and it not having Audyssey is the deal breaker. Atmos takes a lot of processing power so to save on processing power, Integra dropped Audyssey XT32 in favor of more processing power for Atmos, which I most likely am not even going to use. I was looking at something new and different anyway and heard great things about Dirac, which Mark uses to demonstrate his Cat 12C's so when I saw the Emotiva XMC-1 was gonna have Dirac and is affordable, I got excited. Now Audioguy is saying Audyssey is improved in the newer models of the Marantz processors so I'm bouncing back and forth. I was pm-ed that Emotiva isn't really liked in these parts. From everything I looked at, it seemed like the XMC-1 looked like a piece of decent quality, but what do I know. I never owned anything by Emotiva. 



If you are not in a hurry, wait until the XMC gets Dirac and see how folks respond to it.  Once it appears stable, try one since they have a 30 trial period.  Then you will know for sure.  The only way to say the Audyssey is as good as or better than Dirac on the XMC is to do a direct comparison.  If I were in the market for a non-Atmos SSP, they would have been on my list and I would do the same kind of blind compare I did with the Datasat.  But since I know I want Atmos, I won't purchase one for testing purposes only.

I do agree with you on the Onkyo/Integra decision.  You may be correct on why they chose to not implement Audyssey but that was really a poor move.


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Blackdevil77
audioguy wrote:
Blackdevil77 wrote:

Nabs17 wrote:
Since you have an 80.3, have you looked at the 80.6?

http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DHC-80.6&class=Preamplifier&p=i

However it has Accueq instead of Audyssey...not sure how you'd feel about that.


Yes I have, and it not having Audyssey is the deal breaker. Atmos takes a lot of processing power so to save on processing power, Integra dropped Audyssey XT32 in favor of more processing power for Atmos, which I most likely am not even going to use. I was looking at something new and different anyway and heard great things about Dirac, which Mark uses to demonstrate his Cat 12C's so when I saw the Emotiva XMC-1 was gonna have Dirac and is affordable, I got excited. Now Audioguy is saying Audyssey is improved in the newer models of the Marantz processors so I'm bouncing back and forth. I was pm-ed that Emotiva isn't really liked in these parts. From everything I looked at, it seemed like the XMC-1 looked like a piece of decent quality, but what do I know. I never owned anything by Emotiva. 



If you are not in a hurry, wait until the XMC gets Dirac and see how folks respond to it.  Once it appears stable, try one since they have a 30 trial period.  Then you will know for sure.  The only way to say the Audyssey is as good as or better than Dirac on the XMC is to do a direct comparison.  If I were in the market for a non-Atmos SSP, they would have been on my list and I would do the same kind of blind compare I did with the Datasat.  But since I know I want Atmos, I won't purchase one for testing purposes only.

I do agree with you on the Onkyo/Integra decision.  You may be correct on why they chose to not implement Audyssey but that was really a poor move.




I'm certainly not in a hurry, I have no problem waiting until the XMC-1 and AV7702 are out and some reviews are done. In the meantime, there are some room treatments I'd like to do. 

Yeah, that is disappointing about Onkyo/Integra. I think that's gonna hurt them. I forgot where I read that, but I read somewhere that processing power was the reason they dropped XT32. It certainly makes sense, it's just disappointing to see they took the easy/lazy way out.
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hifiaudio2
A few months late to this thread but I just came across this.  I moved from the Marantz 8801 to the XMC-1 with Dirac and am very, very happy.  The only thing that tempts me now is the Trinnov Altitude.  In the realm of sane people, the XMC is an incredible value and Dirac is great!



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sandbagger
I got my XMC-1 about a month ago and have been very impressed with the audio even before setting up Dirac.  My previous processor was the Parasound Halo C2 and had a Sherwood Newcastle 972 with Trinnov for a short time.   I will say Dirac is by far the best thing I have heard.  but then again I have been able to listen/play with it in 2 of the Demo Rooms Mark has set up in the past.   

Just waiting for them to release the full version of Dirac so we can play with the target curves a little

hifiaudio2 wrote:
A few months late to this thread but I just came across this.  I moved from the Marantz 8801 to the XMC-1 with Dirac and am very, very happy.  The only thing that tempts me now is the Trinnov Altitude.  In the realm of sane people, the XMC is an incredible value and Dirac is great!



Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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gpburns
Have you guys with  Dirac compared with Audyssey XT32 -
also are their differences in software / resolution  between the Dirac  versions
in the Datasat , emotive and  mini dsp DDRC-88A

 

Gary
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skillet

sandbagger wrote:
I got my XMC-1 about a month ago and have been very impressed with the audio even before setting up Dirac.  My previous processor was the Parasound Halo C2 and had a Sherwood Newcastle 972 with Trinnov for a short time.   I will say Dirac is by far the best thing I have heard.  but then again I have been able to listen/play with it in 2 of the Demo Rooms Mark has set up in the past.   

Just waiting for them to release the full version of Dirac so we can play with the target curves a little




Sandbagger,
How would you compare the performance of the Sherwood R972 with 3D remapping engaged to the XMC-1 with Dirac?  I currently own an R972 and although it's very quirky and far from my favorite pre-pro/receiver in terms of ergonomics, user friendliness, menus, etc., it's the best sound I've yet to hear for movies and concert Blu-rays when Trinnov has been set up properly and 3D remapping is engaged.  When Dirac is engaged can the XMC-1 create that same type of totally enveloping "sound bubble" around you like the R972 can?
Thanks
 

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sandbagger
skillet wrote:

sandbagger wrote:
I got my XMC-1 about a month ago and have been very impressed with the audio even before setting up Dirac.  My previous processor was the Parasound Halo C2 and had a Sherwood Newcastle 972 with Trinnov for a short time.   I will say Dirac is by far the best thing I have heard.  but then again I have been able to listen/play with it in 2 of the Demo Rooms Mark has set up in the past.   

Just waiting for them to release the full version of Dirac so we can play with the target curves a little




Sandbagger,
How would you compare the performance of the Sherwood R972 with 3D remapping engaged to the XMC-1 with Dirac?  I currently own an R972 and although it's very quirky and far from my favorite pre-pro/receiver in terms of ergonomics, user friendliness, menus, etc., it's the best sound I've yet to hear for movies and concert Blu-rays when Trinnov has been set up properly and 3D remapping is engaged.  When Dirac is engaged can the XMC-1 create that same type of totally enveloping "sound bubble" around you like the R972 can?
Thanks

I dont have a crazy shaped room, not sure how much the Trinnov was really doing for me.  And to be honest I did not spend a ton of time trying to tweek it to the max. 
I would say that DIRAC did way more for my room than Trinnov, even before I got Dirac up and running I thought it sounded better than the 972.  and way less HDMI issues, kind of funny saying that considering all the history they had with HDMI on older products.

Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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hifiaudio2
sandbagger wrote:
I got my XMC-1 about a month ago and have been very impressed with the audio even before setting up Dirac.  My previous processor was the Parasound Halo C2 and had a Sherwood Newcastle 972 with Trinnov for a short time.   I will say Dirac is by far the best thing I have heard.  but then again I have been able to listen/play with it in 2 of the Demo Rooms Mark has set up in the past.   

Just waiting for them to release the full version of Dirac so we can play with the target curves a little





Full version with target curves coming this Friday!  [smile]
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