Mark_Seaton

Updatee: 2/28/2017
I will be updating the first post of this thread and post a separate notice that our introductory pricing will be wrapping up on Wednesday, September 14th. To secure the introductory pricing we will need an e-mail ( sales@seatonsound.net ) with your shipping address and what products are being ordered by 10PM CST on Wednesday, September 14th. Payment needs to be received by Wednesday, September 21st.


After September 14th, pricing will be (+shipping):
F18+ Black Maple - $2,295
F18-Slave Black Maple - $1095
Black Oak finish - +$100
Rosenut finish - +$300
F18i+ 6000W, 240V verison - +$600 ($2,895 Black Maple)

SpeakON slave cables are available and made in house to ordered length in 1' increments using premium, right angle Neutrik SpeakOn connectors and 4 x #11 wire (5/8" diameter.  The cables are priced at a $40 termination fee + $3.50/ft length.  Ex: 20' length = $110.

The 12V trigger on our amplifier uses a 3.5mm Mini Mono cable.  We stock these cables in lengths of 6, 10, 15, 25 & 50 foot lengths for $8-15.

Thank you again for the patience of all who have taken advantage of the introductory pricing and are enjoying their new F18 subwoofers. [thumb]

[F18x3-1-800] 
[F18x6-1] 
[Mark-6F18-800sq] 
Here's a peek at a rosenut F18:

[F18-RN-s1] 

_____________________________________________________________________________________
I am happy to announce that we are ready to start taking orders on the SubMersive F18 which will ship in the form of an F18 (slave) or F18+ (w/4kW power).  I have long wanted to offer a more direct path to an extreme capability, sealed subwoofer system which scales up the balance of efficiency, power, size and refinement of the SubMersive, and the F18 delivers on that goal. 


[image] 

The F18 is the production evolution of the prototypes installed early this summer and detailed here.  This is a modular system using very manageable size modules measuring in at 23.5" x 23.5" x 18"D (including magnetic grill).  The removable feet add 3/4" to the height (=24.25").  The single 18" driver was selected after extensive testing and benchmarking many various candidates from many sources against our SubMersive 15" driver.  With two shorting rings in the motor, dual mirrored spiders and more than +/-2" linear travel without all the operating noise many big woofers suffer from, this beast delivers on both power and refinement.  The high excursion rubber surround and Nomex honeycomb composite, concave cone features woven fiberglass outer skins for the ultimate in rigidity and durability.  Through a great deal of testing we settled on the best driver and enclosure match to get the most from our 4000W amplifier.

While the SubMersive HP+ & F2+ can drive 2 enclosures with 4 drivers, with each 18" module being about 90% the volume of the HP/F2 models we are able to get more than double the deep bass capability from a single 4000W amplifier as the F18+ can drive itself and up to THREE (3) slave units! [eek]  The 4 total modules represent almost 4 times the box volume which allows us to design in significantly more efficiency gaining more from the same amplifier.

This means that with each F18+ you purchase, you have the ability to power a total of 4, F18 modules. [cool]

Our 4000W amplifier delivers 1300W per F18 module with the full 4000W continuous between the 4 drivers when more than 3 are used.  For 80% of use and operating conditions the amplifier drives the stack of 4 18s like a 5,200W monster delivering 12dB more than a single F18.  Only under the longest duration and lowest frequencies is a slight 1dB shed vs using a second amplified unit in the set.

While the samples were entirely utility black, production units will have no threaded inserts on the sides with the main body of the subwoofer being veneered with the black satin cover panel and a matching magnetic grill.  We are offering the same finish options as the rest of our lineup.

Here is a picture of the pre-production sample in our office, without the veneer on the main enclosure.  We will have pictures of a production sample in black maple with magnetic grill early next week:
[F18-03] 

Of course this new product will utilize the same new version of our SubMersive HP+/F2+ amplifier with the following features:

  • Four digitally programmable control knobs for adjusting Gain, LF EQ, Crossover, and Delay
  • Increased range and fine adjustment of Gain/Volume control.
  • LF EQ allowing a +/-8dB adjustment for 12-27Hz to 200Hz ground plane response (+/-3dB)
  • Variable 4th order (24dB/octave) low pass filter with a range of 30-200Hz for 2 channel use.
  • Delay adjustment of 0-20ms intended for aligning multiple powered subwoofers in a room, especially in the case of front/rear placement.
  • Summing RCA inputs and looping XLR male/female connection
  • Auto signal sensing and 12V triggered standby modes
  • Neutrik SpeakOn 4-pole, twist-locking connector to deliver power to a maximum of 3 slave modules
  • Standard IEC (C13) power inlet allowing right angle power connection and readily available power cords (was blue Neutrik PowerCon connector)

[NewHTAmp-1] 

Long term pricing (we'll do more detailed cost analysis as we have a larger production sample) will be as follows in black maple and black oak + shipping:

  • F18+ with internal 4000W amplifier - $2,295
  • F18 - $1,095

Each slave module has a plate the same size as the + amplifier, so upgrading is always possible and we are able to keep both in stock more easily.  This plate will have 2 paralleled Neutrik SpeakON connectors for looping into each F18 and on to another F18 up to a total of 4 total F18 modules.


Jumping on the significant discount on 2 powered units sets you on a path of assembling two massive, 3-4 module stacks in bite-size pieces, and there are few who won't be amazed at the experience of 6-8 carefully optimized, 18" woofers motivated by 8,000W of US made power. 

As an example, you could pick up a pair of F18+ units and 2 F18 modules to set an F18+ and F18 in the front 2 corners with another set at the rear of the room.  Even here you have the ability to double the system capability in the future while starting with more
Pictures like these never get, old and look even better in person [cool] :
[F18-Mark-stack-800]   

[image] 

Those ready to order please e-mail us at sales@seatonsound.net with your shipping address and the specific units you are ordering so we can provide the appropriate invoice for payment by credit card (by phone), PayPal e-mail invoice online, or by check or wire transfer.  Check or wire transfer payments can save $40 per powered unit and $20 per slave.

Here are a few more pictures taken of the first production units in the shop:
[F18-p3]
[F18-p2]
[F18-p5] [F18-p1]   

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Mark_Seaton
Reserved
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Mark_Seaton
Reserved
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Kain
Great stuff! Few questions though...

1. You stated "you could pick up a pair of F18+ units and 2 F18 modules to set an F18+ and F18 in the front 2 corners with another set at the rear of the room.  Even here you have the ability to double the system capability in the future while starting with more <25Hz capability than 4 SubMersives." What about >25 Hz? How would a pair of F18+ units and a pair of F18 slave modules compare to four SubMersives above 25 Hz?

2. Does the amplifier support universal voltage or will we have to wait for the F18i+?
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Mark_Seaton
Kain wrote:
Great stuff! Few questions though...

1. You stated "you could pick up a pair of F18+ units and 2 F18 modules to set an F18+ and F18 in the front 2 corners with another set at the rear of the room.  Even here you have the ability to double the system capability in the future while starting with more <25Hz capability than 4 SubMersives." What about >25 Hz? How would a pair of F18+ units and a pair of F18 slave modules compare to four SubMersives above 25 Hz?

2. Does the amplifier support universal voltage or will we have to wait for the F18i+?


It's the same amplifier used in the HP+/F2+, programmed and optimized for the 18s.  I do not yet have the F18i+ amplifiers in stock.  Being that they are early in life I want to get a few more out in the field here in the states first.  Most likely any adjustments would be with some functional settings in the DSP.  This is very easy to rectify by shipping back the amplifier and re-programming, and isn't too big a deal shipping a 9 lb box around the US.  For our international customers the shipping cost for a simple re-programming can be $150-350 round trip, and something I don't want us or the customer eating needlessly.  It appears the F18i+ will have a long term price of $2895.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Skrill
Question -- I have a SubM HP+ Master/Slave setup.  If I moved that setup to the rear corners of my room, and added a F18+ and slave (and then later maybe add additional slaves) to the front corners ... would that work?

I.e., can you mix F18 and SubM HP in the same room and get benefits?
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Kain
Thanks. I just remembered you answered my first question here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/759877-seaton-sound-submersive1-339.html#post38570297

You mentioned that a single F18 module is basically 1/2 a SubMersive but two powered F18 units + two slave F18 units (which would be equal to two SubMersives) have more output below 25 Hz than four SubMersives. I am correct in assuming below 25 Hz a single F18 unit is equal to one SubMersive but above 25 Hz one F18 unit is equal to half a SubMersive? Sorry for the noob-like question. [tongue]
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Mark_Seaton
Kain wrote:
Thanks. I just remembered you answered my first question here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/759877-seaton-sound-submersive1-339.html#post38570297

You mentioned that a single F18 module is basically 1/2 a SubMersive but two powered F18 units + two slave F18 units (which would be equal to two SubMersives) have more output below 25 Hz than four SubMersives. I am correct in assuming below 25 Hz a single F18 unit is equal to one SubMersive but above 25 Hz one F18 unit is equal to half a SubMersive? Sorry for the noob-like question. [tongue]


Much closer than that.  The F18 module has the edge below 25Hz, more so with lower distortion levels and a little more headroom, while the F18 gets edged out above 25Hz by the pair of very efficient 15" drivers in the SubMersive.  It's no where near a 2:1 difference on either end.  For big rooms with limited number of boxes, the SubMersive can produce higher overall playback levels with the majority of playback material, but the F18 has the edge down low and is lower distortion at the lowest frequencies.  In other words, a pair of F18's is a very nice upgrade from one SubMersive.  1:1 it's more so different flavors and strengths.

I would say February is a good expectation for availability of the F18i+ units.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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zdoggz
Kain wrote:
Thanks. I just remembered you answered my first question here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/759877-seaton-sound-submersive1-339.html#post38570297

You mentioned that a single F18 module is basically 1/2 a SubMersive but two powered F18 units + two slave F18 units (which would be equal to two SubMersives) have more output below 25 Hz than four SubMersives. I am correct in assuming below 25 Hz a single F18 unit is equal to one SubMersive but above 25 Hz one F18 unit is equal to half a SubMersive? Sorry for the noob-like question. [tongue]


I think you misunderstood what mark said in the post you referred to as he was speaking of a separate 1/2 submersive product (not the f18).
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zdoggz
Skrill wrote:
Question -- I have a SubM HP+ Master/Slave setup.  If I moved that setup to the rear corners of my room, and added a F18+ and slave (and then later maybe add additional slaves) to the front corners ... would that work?

I.e., can you mix F18 and SubM HP in the same room and get benefits?


I had the same question and am sure this is going to be asked a lot. I'm sure Mark will clarify this for everyone. Great to have options, but with more options comes more questions and potential setups scenarios!

I am sure there will be many people asking themselves "should I go with the submersive or the f18?" now. For what it's worth, I just ordered master and slave f2 as mark seemed to agree that that was the best approach for me and my setup (currently owning a submersive hp+ and slave). Mind you, I have a room that's only roughly 2100 cu ft so maybe that's why. In my opinion, I believe Mark would have simply replaced the submersive/f2 with the f18 if it was simply an upgraded or more capable version of the hp/f2. Maybe Mark can expand a bit more on his post #8 comment and maybe generalize when the hp/f2 makes more sense and when the f18 makes more sense since i believe both products still serve their particular purpose/role in his subwoofer lineup.
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Mark_Seaton
zdoggz wrote:
Skrill wrote:
Question -- I have a SubM HP+ Master/Slave setup.  If I moved that setup to the rear corners of my room, and added a F18+ and slave (and then later maybe add additional slaves) to the front corners ... would that work?

I.e., can you mix F18 and SubM HP in the same room and get benefits?
I had the same question and am sure this is going to be asked a lot. I'm sure Mark will clarify this for everyone. Great to have options, but with more options comes more questions and potential setups scenarios! I am sure there will be many people asking themselves "should I go with the submersive or the f18?" now. For what it's worth, I just ordered master and slave f2 as mark seemed to agree that that was the best approach for me and my setup (currently owning a submersive hp+ and slave). Mind you, I have a room that's only roughly 2100 cu ft so maybe that's why. In my opinion, I believe Mark would have simply replaced the submersive/f2 with the f18 if it was simply an upgraded or more capable version of the hp/f2. Maybe Mark can expand a bit more on his post #8 comment and maybe generalize when the hp/f2 makes more sense and when the f18 makes more sense since i believe both products still serve their particular purpose/role in his subwoofer lineup.


Short answer:  There is no issue mixing F18 & HP/F2 type subwoofers in the room, where I would preferably do this with one set toward the front and one toward the rear.  The slight latency difference of the new amplifiers vs original make it such that I wouldn't blindly line up F2's with the original amplifiers along the front next to F18's with the identical signal going to them.  

If both have the same series amplifier then it is really not an issue, but with the slightly different strengths and characters, placing HP/F2's and F18s front/rear makes more sense and can work quite well and is something I would recommend.   If the rear subs are closer and the HP/F2 has the original amplifiers I would prefer to have the ability to set separate delays in the preamp, a separate device like a MiniDSP, DSP-30 or DCX-2496, or use the new amplifier in the rear.

So far as choosing between the F18 and HP/F2, if you might be really pushing the subs to get the playback levels you want as you can only use 1-2 subs the dual 15" drivers will offer a bit higher playback level on a 1:1 box comparison.  If you are pretty certain you will be stepping up to 4 subs in the room now or in the future and know you are one who keeps looking for a bit more after you aclimate, the F18 offers even more room for long term expansion as a powered unit front/rear affords the eventual option of stepping it up to as many as 2 F18s stacked in each of the 4 corners which offers similar performance to what we assembled at Axpona 2015 using 4 F2's and 4 HP's.

The more likely you see significant upgrades in your future, the more the F18 makes sense.

Of course there are also aesthetic and size differences between the models, where one may look right in one room and entirely out of place in another.  The SubMersive HP+ & F2+ are even better values now with the new amplifiers, and there's no reason to stop selling them.  Yes, some will choose an F18 instead.  Some who might never have purchased and HP or F2 will purchase the F18.  It's important not to hold any product as sacred.  Breaking the F18 into individual modules rather than dual driver behemoths allows us to ship the subwoofer to most of the US for under $100, it's manageable to get into a basement with twisting stairs, and you aren't forced to buy a $5,000 monster subwoofer or a smaller model.  

I've long been a proponent of customers setting their sights on what they really want and figuring out a path to that end or at least reasonably close.  We regularly see owners of other subwoofer brands looking for the next bigger model or new flavor.  Here you can spend less over the course of what might have been a couple upgrades and end up assembling a system that will wow even the most seasoned enthusiasts.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Drpete
I put that thru google translate but I still don't understand the message [smile]
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zdoggz
Surprisingly, the switch to the standard IEC powercord is quite a benefit to me as now I can easily buy longer cords if needed. I know in my case , I only have outlets on one side of the back of my room, so if I wanted to put two powered f18s back there (one in each corner) it seems that now I can easily pick up a 10ft IEC powercord to do it.
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Kain
zdoggz wrote:
Kain wrote:
Thanks. I just remembered you answered my first question here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/759877-seaton-sound-submersive1-339.html#post38570297

You mentioned that a single F18 module is basically 1/2 a SubMersive but two powered F18 units + two slave F18 units (which would be equal to two SubMersives) have more output below 25 Hz than four SubMersives. I am correct in assuming below 25 Hz a single F18 unit is equal to one SubMersive but above 25 Hz one F18 unit is equal to half a SubMersive? Sorry for the noob-like question. [tongue]
I think you misunderstood what mark said in the post you referred to as he was speaking of a separate 1/2 submersive product (not the f18).


Ah yes, you are correct. However, thanks to Mark for answering the question.
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DaveyMac
Looks like the 'first people to order might get before xmas' didn't happen.

Any chance people that ordered three months ago will have them by the other 12/31 date given?
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Mark_Seaton
DaveyMac wrote:
Looks like the 'first people to order might get before xmas' didn't happen. Any chance people that ordered three months ago will have them by the other 12/31 date given?


There are many reasons I didn't formally open up ordering of the F18s until December 8th, and these delays in initial production are one of those reasons.  You are one of only two customers I did allow to order early.  Unfortunately my cabinet shop encountered both having some key staff out over the past 2 week and needing some unexpected maintenance on their CNC machines which has us 1-2 weeks behind on delivery.  Every year our cabinet shop closes the week between the Christmas and New Years holidays for year end inventory and holiday break.  All parts are queued up for their return after the new year and production goes very quickly once parts are on hand.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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PaulTimm
Mark, do you have pictures of the final product yet? With and without the speaker grill on.
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DaveyMac
Ok thanks for update Mark, you are the best!

Ill just leave the xnas tree up and then when subs come I'll see if I can shake all the needles off. Haha. Have a Blessed and Merry Christmas!
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Mark_Seaton
PaulTimm wrote:
Mark, do you have pictures of the final product yet? With and without the speaker grill on.


I'll have a picture with the grills on Tuesday.  I'm out of town tomorrow through Monday night but will be checking e-mail and the forums.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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BrolicBeast
[eek][eek][eek] What excellence is this I see? Yikes!!!  Very, very nice Mark. [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]
Home Theater is a Way of Life
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Mark_Seaton
Mark_Seaton wrote:
PaulTimm wrote:
Mark, do you have pictures of the final product yet? With and without the speaker grill on.


I'll have a picture with the grills on Tuesday.  I'm out of town tomorrow through Monday night but will be checking e-mail and the forums.


A quick update:  I was supposed to be back in Chicago last night, but heavy ice & sleet cancelled most flights, including my own.  I'm driving back from Denver through today so will be available on and off through the day.  I'll have a picture of the final production sample some time tomorrow when I'm back in the office.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Mark_Seaton
BrolicBeast wrote:
[eek][eek][eek] What excellence is this I see? Yikes!!!  Very, very nice Mark. [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]


Good to see you checking in here Matt!

I added the extra good pricing on 4 powered units as I know there are guys as ambitious(over-the-top? [wink]) as you are with your theater plans.  See how many you might be able to fit in your room, and then figure a point to start while leaving room for your most ambitious plans. [cool]
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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DaveyMac
Mark_Seaton wrote:
I'll have a picture with the grills on Tuesday.  I'm out of town tomorrow through Monday night but will be checking e-mail and the forums.


I didn't see the pictures on Tuesday 27th. Are they posted elsewhere? Any update as to when the actual subs will be showing up to those who have ordered?
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Mark_Seaton
DaveyMac wrote:
Mark_Seaton wrote:
I'll have a picture with the grills on Tuesday.  I'm out of town tomorrow through Monday night but will be checking e-mail and the forums.


I didn't see the pictures on Tuesday 27th. Are they posted elsewhere? Any update as to when the actual subs will be showing up to those who have ordered?


Hi David,

The first batch of enclosures will be arriving within a week from Monday. We'll have the first 1/2 shipped out within 5 business days (yours goes out first). The remainder will follow soon after which includes inventory available for new orders.  In reviewing the production samples we did add one more step to the prep/finishing/painting process of the 1 1/8" thick cover panel to make sure the finish remains consistent batch to batch.

I didn't pull out the real camera, but here are a few quick pictures I took in the shop on my phone:

[F18-p3]
[F18-p2]
[F18-p5]
[F18-p1]       


Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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KlipschHead281
Good grief man, I hope some day to have the room to purchase not only your subs but also all the other great speakers you produce. I can only imagine what a completed package sounds like, must be incredible. 

Respect.

AVR/Blu-Ray - Marantz SR7009 (9.2.2) - Blu-Ray Oppo UDP 203 - Apple TV
Front Height Amplifier - 2 Marantz MA6100's
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 - Center RC-64 - Front Wide 2 RP-160M, Front Height 2 RB-10
Rear Surround - Surround Back 2 RS-52, Surround 2 R-14M
Subs - Dual MFW15's (Seaton Sound ICE amplifiers, soon to be triple MFW's)
TV -Samsung 55" 8500
2CH - Klipsch "The Sixes" and 1 MFW15


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