Dragoson

Hey All,

So my wife just gave me the thumbs up to drop about $12k into our home theater. My room is about 14.5 x 30 feet.

I am was/am currently running:
2x Rocket RS850 Signature
1x Rocket RSC200 Signature
2x Rocket RSS300 Surrounds
1x MFW-15
Marantz 8002 AVR
EPSON PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 UB
Carada 1.78 118' BW Criterion Fixed Screen

I'm actually pretty content with the visual portion of my equipment (for now), but due to a sump pump failure I have been without the RS850's for almost 2 years and just running with the center and surrounds. I've been researching and following several speakers on AVS and other enthusiast forums for a couple of years and have it narrowed down to JTR or Seaton speakers.

Based on first impressions I could go a couple of routes:

Option #1:
3x Neosis 212HT/LP
4x Neosis 228HT
1x Orbit Shift/Cap S2 (Not 100% sure on this yet)

Option #2:
3x Seaton Catalyst 12C
1x Submersive F2 Subwoofer

I was originally looking at either the JTR Triple 12's or Seatons, but with the Neosis coming out and some of the more recognized names on forums giving them such great reviews I now am less sure about which way to go. I don't want to feel the need to upgrade anytime in the future (I.E. 5-10 years out). For the subs I am looking for the "thump" in your chest feeling as a priority.

For those of you that have heard both, what are your opinions? On the same note, does anyone have any of these setups (or close to them) in the Cedar Rapids, IA area or a few hours drive available for a demo?

Thanks!

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FOH
You'll very likely need a different subwoofer strategy, .. multiples.

At that budget amount, I'd examine (3) Cat8C across the front, with two well optimized SubMersive HPs in the room. That's a better appropriation of the funding IMO, but that's only because I'm familiar with the Catalyst family, and you're going to need multiple subs for a higher quality, higher level of uniformity of subwoofer response quality. 

The path to smooth, high quality bass response in an HT, is via multiple subs, no question.

My take.
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Mark_Seaton
Do you have any more info or pictures on how you have your speakers/system set up in your room?  Am I correct to assume the speakers set up in the room flanking the screen and not concealed?
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Dragoson
Below is the best I could mock-up showing the layout. Currently the room is setup with the screen and center speaker on the 14.5 foot wall and flanking the screen. I plan to build a false wall and use an acoustic screen later this year to conceal the front speakers though.

My main seating is about 14 feet back with several peices of exercise equipment behind that. I had planned to put a couple of couches on the side walls as well for get-togethers.



   Screen   
 L   C   R 
              
              
Future
Couch
        Future
Couch
        
        
        
        
        
        
              
              
RL  LoveSeat
Theater Seating
  RR
    
      
              
   Treadmill  Ellipticle   
        
        
        
        
        
              
              
             Door
             
             
             
              
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audioguy
I am in agreement with FOH. I would only add that it is not just two subs, but rather two strategically (acoustically) well placed subs, which may or may not have them in symmetrical locations.  Knowing what I now know, the minor drop off in potential output of  Cat 8's vs 12's would pale in comparison to the benefit of two well placed subs versus a single sub. 

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FOH
^   ^   ^

+1 

yep, hence ... "well optimized"

Mark has made clear the Cat8C gives up very little to the Cat12C. I'm thinking unless the room was a huge, dedicated, multi-row theater, it would be hard to find to flesh out the differences. Audioguy is spot on; Multiple subs is way more important than whatever difference exists between the Catalyst models.



Dragoson, I'm curious about the other changes, particularly the "false wall". Will this coincide with the loudspeaker changes?

Thanks
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Dragoson

That's the plan! I've actually had my theater room half-torn apart for awhile now waiting on a few things to stabilize financially. With those things out of the way, I plan on adding the false wall (2-3 feet out from current wall, acoustic screen) and doing some soundproofing (I.E. decoupling, double-drywall + GG) around the time I purchase new speakers.

I'd prefer to purchase to support my main goal of having all the equipment I will need (want) for a dedicated 20x25x12 room in a few years, even if I have to peice it together. That way when I build I can just shift the equipment over when the time comes.  I'm sure based on the upgrades I am looking at, even if this room isn't optimal, it will be a huge improvement from what I have been accustomed.

I can deal with a partial set-up until I free up some more capital, heck I've been runing just a center and 2 surrounds for almost 2 years already. That being said, with my ideal theater in mind what should I be aiming for? 3x Cat12's 4x Sparks, 2-4 Subs?
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audioguy
Dragoson wrote:

That being said, with my ideal theater in mind what should I be aiming for? 3x Cat12's 4x Sparks, 2-4 Subs?


Since that is exactly what I have, that is a great start.  Then if you want to add "wides" get some 8C's and then Mark's yet to be delivered Spark replacements for heights (or wides) !!!

If there were a better 11.x HT audio system out there, I would be surprised.
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Hudda
Dragoson wrote:
That way when I build I can just shift the equipment over when the time comes


This was my thinking as well.  The Cat 12's are overkill for my 13' x 18' room but when I move the plan is to have a large, multi-row dedicated theater.  It's good to know the front stage can be successfully transplanted into virtually any residential space.  I still only have one SubM HP but it is more than sufficient in this particular upstairs setup.  The next house will undoubtedly be another story as FOH and audioguy correctly point out. 

Regarding the Noesis line, while I am sure these are terrific loudspeakers, keep in mind there is often a rush of over-the-top enthusiasm for new products over at AVS.   Nothing wrong with that, but it's usually best to let the smoke clear a little bit before taking some commentary too literally.  Hopefully you will be able to hear both for yourself.

Chris
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mojave
Dragoson wrote:

For those of you that have heard both, what are your opinions? On the same note, does anyone have any of these setups (or close to them) in the Cedar Rapids, IA area or a few hours drive available for a demo?


Thanks!


In the que* is the opportunity to possibly hear both in Des Moines soon. I should be able to provide more info tomorrow.

*intentionally misspelled for Mark's sake 

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mojave
I have more details about the event in Des Moines. On April 27 there will be a speaker GTG hosted by AVS member dlbeck (David). Mark Seaton (Seaton Sound), Jeff Permanian (JTR Speakers), and Phil Bamberg (Bamberg Audio) will be present with their speakers. Since you have av123 speakers, you will also probably know about the LS-6 designed by Danny Richie. I will be bringing my pair of these speakers. David also has his own pair of Salk HT2-TL speakers. 

Here is the AVS announcement thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460712/central-iowa-spring-audio-gtg-jtr-bamberg-seaton-salk-gr-research/0_100
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Dragoson
Awesome! That is super close and has everything I want to hear (and more!). I'm familiar with the LS6's, they were on my list for quite some time until the demise of AV123. I'm excited to hear them as well since I have never been exposed to a line source. I GREALTY appreciate the heads up on this event mojave!
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mojave
An interesting piece of trivia that Mark Seaton, Phil Bamberg, and Danny Richie (GR-Research) all did some design work for av123. Maybe we should have a Shifter pinata at the GTG. 
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Mark_Seaton
mojave wrote:
An interesting piece of trivia that Mark Seaton, Phil Bamberg, and Danny Richie (GR-Research) all did some design work for av123. Maybe we should have a Shifter pinata at the GTG. 


Now that would be YouTube worthy!  Of course if it's at all to scale, I'll be bringing an aluminum bat as that's a lot of pinata!

Joking aside, it should be a fun gathering, even if I'll be somewhat spent with this making 3 GTG weekends in a row.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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audioguy
Speaking of Mark Shifter, is he in prison anywhere?
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mojave
He served two years for stealing from the raffles and was sentenced last year to another year in jail for taking money for speakers he didn't deliver. There may be consecutive sentences for more charges.




Looks like he gained 10 more pounds!
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Mark_Seaton

audioguy wrote:
Speaking of Mark Shifter, is he in prison anywhere?


As mojave mentioned, he was out for a while after a year or two spending every night and weekend in jail.  I believe he's now back to that routine for the RSL II speakers never delivered.  I actually bumped into him in October at the very tail end of RMAF when he was helping someone load some speakers in/out.  He was a good bit more humble than in the past.  The audio business is no longer his primary employment but from what I understand he has been lingering in the background connecting manufacturers with part suppliers and OEMs.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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