audioguy Show full post »
FOH
I'm curious (not having any real diffusion in my modest room, I'm not really qualified to say), however it appears the side-wall diffusion is somewhat high in elevation. When examining the Cat's MF/HF coax elevation, relative to the apparent seated listening position, then extrapolating the incident area of question on the side-wall ... it just appears the diffusers are high.

Granted, images can easily exaggerate perspective, angles, etc., and with GIK involved I'm sure they served you well, love many of their creative products and generous advice. And their forum presence is strong as well.      


Enjoy that wonderful space, good luck with the right channel issue.

  
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 Great looking photos - what an inviting listening area to enjoy music/film


 +1 

Absolutely, it makes my lame room look in total dis-array [frown]
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audioguy
FOH wrote:
I'm curious (not having any real diffusion in my modest room, I'm not really qualified to say), however it appears the side-wall diffusion is somewhat high in elevation. When examining the Cat's MF/HF coax elevation, relative to the apparent seated listening position, then extrapolating the incident area of question on the side-wall ... it just appears the diffusers are high.

Granted, images can easily exaggerate perspective, angles, etc., and with GIK involved I'm sure they served you well, love many of their creative products and generous advice. And their forum presence is strong as well.      


Enjoy that wonderful space, good luck with the right channel issue.

  
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 Great looking photos - what an inviting listening area to enjoy music/film


 +1 

Absolutely, it makes my lame room look in total dis-array [frown]


The center of the mid/tweeter is a tad lower than the midpoint of the diffusers but only by a few inches.  It would be reasonably easy to change but historically (for me), those kinds of "mini-projects" ALMOST ALWAYS turns out to be a bad idea ---something breaks or I can't get them to hang correctly or ... and then I may or may not be able to hear any difference.

At least for that part of the room, I will leave "well enough" alone [tongue]

My next project of any consequence will be to try the Emotiva XMC-1 SSP that supports Dirac room correction.  It is expected to be released in the next 4,831 months (or not).  I have one on order.
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gpburns
"Emotiva XMC-1 SSP that supports Dirac room correction"

very interesting - keeps us informed 
Gary
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audioguy
I must say that I really can not image how much a "better"  SSP would make this room.  I have watched a couple of movies and the sound using my Integra 80.2 is incredibly good.  

I have very low expectations that any other SSP (regardless of price) is going to get me much further down the audio nirvana highway.

We shall see.  I have never enjoyed an audio system as much as I do the all Seaton system in the almost 50 years I have been into the hobby/addiction.  Easily the most fun.
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gpburns

For sure

I’m am just curious to hear your personal take on Dirac

Everything I’ve read has been positive however as most have

Invested  $20K+  in a equivalent pre/pro the Kool-Aid so to speak

Is pretty tasty

MultEQ XT32  is an excellent tool and used properly is really good

I would take $20K+ in Seaton gear and a 32XT processor

Every time over say – insert speakers and a  $20K Pre/pro    

Gary
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audioguy
gpburns wrote:

For sure

I’m am just curious to hear your personal take on Dirac

Everything I’ve read has been positive however as most have

Invested  $20K+  in a equivalent pre/pro the Kool-Aid so to speak

Is pretty tasty

MultEQ XT32  is an excellent tool and used properly is really good

I would take $20K+ in Seaton gear and a 32XT processor

Every time over say – insert speakers and a  $20K Pre/pro    



Dirac is, in my opinion, better than Audyssey.  I will try to find the OmniMIc plot where I ran 9 measurement for Dirac (required) and 9 with Audyssey and then measured.  Dirac does a much better job of producing flatter bass and, more important in my case, did a better job in the more critical midrange area WHEN LISTENING TO 2 CHANNEL.  I also think it sounds better.  What I don't know, however, is how that sounds (compared to Audyssey) when all of the speakers of a surround system are playing.

I would totally agree with you that I would prefer Audyssey with the Cats than some $20K SSP solution with lesser speakers.  Audyssey is an amazing product and it has transformed my listening experience from being OK to spectacular.  The question is would a much more expensive processor with Dirac be noticeable/better?

And I know the Kool Aid drinkers would NEVER agree to a blind comparison of two competent SSP's.


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FOH
audioguy wrote:
I must say that I really can not image how much a "better"  SSP would make this room.  I have watched a couple of movies and the sound using my Integra 80.2 is incredibly good.  

I have very low expectations that any other SSP (regardless of price) is going to get me much further down the audio nirvana highway.

We shall see.  I have never enjoyed an audio system as much as I do the all Seaton system in the almost 50 years I have been into the hobby/addiction.  Easily the most fun.


I can appreciate this, and I also appreciate your candor. Everyone should pay attention when audioguy points this out.

Make no mistake, products like Dirac or Trinnov are interesting and powerful to the experience. 

However, all too often too many enthusiasts get caught up in upgradeitis for gear, we've all been there. As audioguy knows, what really differentiates systems from one another is loudspeakers, the room, and the proper blending and optimization of the two.

Stating his low expectations illustrates his experience with such things. Already possessing a highly capable loudspeaker/sub system, leaves the room, and just like the previous room, it would appear the room is well executed.

Speakers----check
Subs---------check
Room--------check

Electronics does matter, but as long as they're competently designed .. they don't matter much relative to the speaker/room interface. As long as the gear is reasonably transparent (modern DACs/DSP is great), and there's no egregious errors in the signal path, the aforementioned room acoustics, speakers and blending is dramatically more important. The gear does matter, but it's a matter of degree.

All said, a new SSP on it's own isn't going to change much. Now DSP products like Dirac can create interesting changes to the experience. Although I've read a lot about both Trinnov and Dirac DSP, I've not used them extensively enough to comment specifically on what each offers and how they differ from Audyssey. But given the right tools (EQ, time alignment) hands on tuning and an acoustically sound room, can be as spectacular as any DSP correction can be.

Point being, audioguy's room is fine, his speaker system is fine, he's knowledgeable in  set-up and tuning, so he's right on point in expressing reservations with regard to possible improvement of a new piece of gear, ... and that's refreshing. Again, others should pay attention, good stuff.   

Thanks

(so many leave so much potential performance on the table pursuing flavor of the month gear/subs, etc., when their room is in dire need of attention)








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gpburns
getting closure to market
http://www.xmc-1.com/


Chuck be sure to check out the film All Is Lost 
The surround mix is one of the finest every put on disc
and well supported with terrific LFE
Gary
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audioguy
Thanks Gary. It will be fun to see if the XMC-1 is really better than my Integra/Audyssey Pro. I hope it is!! I will check out your movie recommendation! Thanks!!  (ordered it from Amazon ... I love Amazon)
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audioguy
I run Dirac on my music server and Audyssey on my Integra.  For grins, I decided to compare the two.  When I run my server, I pass digital output to the Integra with Audyssey off but cam able to use bass management to integrate the subs. I ran 9 Audyssey Pro measurements and 9 Dirac Measurements.  As you can see, Dirac does a much better job in a very critical area between 100hz and 1K.  To be fair, I could try to modify the Audyssey target curve to see if I can address the issue but with an Apple to Apple compare, Dirac wins -- it also sound better.

What I don't know is if a system with 11 speakers running Dirac will sound better than the same systems running Audyssey.  I should be able to find out in April when I allegedly will receive my XMC-1 from Emotiva that runs Dirac.

Audyssey vs Dirac-Resized.jpg 

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FOH
I recognize that multi-sub response down in the sub range, nice!

I'm curious about the very top end, is the drop in level due to mic incidence angle, or can you perceive an EQ change?

Excited to hear more about the Emotiva processor upon it's arrival.

Do you still use the Antimode Dual Core?  

Thanks

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audioguy
FOH wrote:
I recognize that multi-sub response down in the sub range, nice!

I'm curious about the very top end, is the drop in level due to mic incidence angle, or can you perceive an EQ change?

Excited to hear more about the Emotiva processor upon it's arrival.

Do you still use the Antimode Dual Core?  

Thanks



I can't explain the top end differences and I am more than comfortable saying at my age, a few db difference at, for example 15kz,  would be inaudible to my ears.

And I have actually never actually installed the AntiMode - it is still sitting in the box.  In my current situation, there is really no need for it.  I purchased it to use when I was running a separate 2 channel system with a separate 2 channel preamp  (but using the same speakers) to provide some control over the bass. Right now, I use the Integra to provide bass management for 2 channel (Audyssey off) and run Dirac on my server.

I will keep it for a while longer to see if I need it for some configuration.

I will post my thoughts on the Emotiva if they actually ever deliver one.  They have slipped delivery of their new SSP for YEARS !! 
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FOH
audioguy wrote:
I can't explain the top end differences and I am more than comfortable saying at my age, a few db difference at, for example 15kz,  would be inaudible to my ears.


I hear you, I'm the same way up around 15k and up. I'm not missing much material if my system can't reproduce it up there. On a related note, ... my son did an audio science fair project last week, and I had some gear set-up for him temporarily in the front room where they hang out. So, coincidently, with three teens in the house ... I took the opportunity to perform some simple, unscientific testing.

I wanted to check everyone's HF hearing capability way up in the top octave. This had nothing to do with the science fair project, but had some measuring gear and a small system set up so what the heck. Granted, the methodology was rough at best ... but I found all three kids, ages 13, 16, 17, could detect the highest tone on the disc ... 20khz, via some old JBL 6.5", Titanium tweeter two-ways, with a Rives test disc as a source. Myself, I could clearly hear 12.5k, the next freq was 16k, and I could faintly hear it, but I had to elevate the signal.  



audioguy wrote:
And I have actually never actually installed the AntiMode - it is still sitting in the box.  In my current situation, there is really no need for it.  I purchased it to use when I was running a separate 2 channel system with a separate 2 channel preamp  (but using the same speakers) to provide some control over the bass. Right now, I use the Integra to provide bass management for 2 channel (Audyssey off) and run Dirac on my server.

I will keep it for a while longer to see if I need it for some configuration.

I will post my thoughts on the Emotiva if they actually ever deliver one.  They have slipped delivery of their new SSP for YEARS !! 



I seriously hope you get the Emotiva, I trust your assessment ... and would enjoy reading you put it thru it's paces.   

Thanks

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audioguy
I know I have said this previously, but in the almost 50 years I have had an audio system, some of which were REALLY REALLY REALLY  expensive (and quite good), I have never enjoyed any of them to the degree I enjoy my current system.  I have spent a lot of time calibrating this room (Love the new OmniMic test data disk with a 5.1 signal) as well as running a really tight 9 point Audyssey correction around the MLP.  Watched the latest Iron Man last night and could not get the smile off my face.  (the new Sony 600ES also is a major upgrade on the visual side).  But sonically, I just can not say enough good things on how awesome an all Seaton system is.  I am not suggesting there are not equally good or even better, but I have yet to hear one (for home theater, not two channel).  I would love to hear CraigJohn's sometime.

Anyway, each time I watch a movie, I am blown away and this has been going on for about 5 years with the subs and about 4 with the Cats and about 3 with the Sparks.

FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN !!!!  [biggrin] [biggrin] [biggrin]
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gpburns
audioguy wrote:
I know I have said this previously, but in the almost 50 years I have had an audio system, some of which were REALLY REALLY REALLY  expensive (and quite good), I have never enjoyed any of them to the degree I enjoy my current system.  I have spent a lot of time calibrating this room (Love the new OmniMic test data disk with a 5.1 signal) as well as running a really tight 9 point Audyssey correction around the MLP.  Watched the latest Iron Man last night and could not get the smile off my face.  (the new Sony 600ES also is a major upgrade on the visual side).  But sonically, I just can not say enough good things on how awesome an all Seaton system is.  I am not suggesting there are not equally good or even better, but I have yet to hear one (for home theater, not two channel).  I would love to hear CraigJohn's sometime.

Anyway, each time I watch a movie, I am blown away and this has been going on for about 5 years with the subs and about 4 with the Cats and about 3 with the Sparks.

FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN !!!!  [biggrin] [biggrin] [biggrin]


[thumb]

chuck is this what you are using on music server
http://www.dirac.se/en/consumer-products/dirac-rcs.aspx


Gary
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audioguy
gpburns wrote:
chuck is this what you are using on music server
http://www.dirac.se/en/consumer-products/dirac-rcs.aspx




Yes
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Antibody
Hello all [smile]

I'm brand new here! Sadly living in Europe, about 20 European countries + the Atlantic ocean + half the US away from where all the action takes place with Seaton Sounds, I believe!
I'm virtually a total newbie to Hi-Fi, HTPC and anything related to audio and video technical stuff... also the language barrier makes it even more of a challenge learning all about the audio/video technical stuff and even though I've been told that I possess a couple of pretty good musical ears in the past, I still have no equivalent in words to the kinda "sound" I might hear/like/prefer. Words like soundstage, imaging, dynamics and such, simply have no "audio-perceivable" meaning in my head, since I'm yet to develop some kind of word-gargon understanding what everythin means!

I know nothing about how a loudspeaker or a subwoofer is made, I have no knowledge of stuff like sine curves, I really have no grasp of phrases which I read all over the place like DSP, SPL, volume gain, etc etc.
I would never be able to give a "written review" about what I hear. I simply do not have enough vocabulary to express what my ears are perceiving in order to translate that into audiophile-worthy words!

But....... I do hear [smile]
I feel what I hear. From what other people in the audiophile business have told me repeatedly, apparently my brains are extraordinary clever at differentiating a particular sound from another one in a blind test.
I have no idea why... but despite my great emotional side of my personality which simply loves a great sound, I've never been good at grasping and understanding the technical side of the story, much of it perhaps because of the fact that my economical situation has always been very poor and I could never afford bringing home a system with outstanding sound producing ability. Also, living in a relatively small country, the market basically equals to none when it comes to high-end stuff... of any sort, really.

Anyways, I still love reading about the technical specs and taking part of other people's reviews, tech-talk and experiences. I happened to stumble upon this forum a couple of months ago, I've since then read numerous threads, I've followed links talking about Seaton products both on AVSforum and some other sites, found a couple of clips on youtube, and above all, I've noticed how some of the most skeptic non-believers have turned around completely after gaining access to some listening opportunities of Mark's speakers... TBH, I'm YET to find ONE bad testing or experience review to manifest itself after..... is it 7-8 yrs of the Seaton systems history?! That is the most incredible 10/10 star grade to be given at any level when it comes to high-end audio gears [smile]

BRAVO Mark! I'm amazed! And I haven't neither seen nor heard one part of the production line which is available to us!


So, guys..... I don't think that I will have enough money to buy any of these amazingly built speakers anytime soon... but now I'm HERE and I've seen how incredibly helpful you guys are towards each other when it comes to the technical stuff, therefore I feel no fear not having a clue how to "calibrate" a couple of Submersives, shall it come to a point where I could ever afford purchasing them.... since I know where to go and ask for help! This must be the MOST friendly forum I've ever encountered! Kudos to Mark... you seem always to be such a calm, happy, polite and helpful individual! How on earth do you go about doing that with all these responsibilities on your shoulders?! This is beyond me really... I'm totally amazed! [smile]

I'm happy to be a part of this community, even though I will probably never own such a system, I very much enjoy reading all your comments and watching the few pics being available on this site [smile]

Mark, have you ever delivered any of your products to Sweden BTW?

Also, audioguy... thank you for making this thread such a nice one to read and follow! 
Any advice for a total newbie to the technical side of the audiophiles, how and/or where to start in order to get some ground up and basics so I can start understanding the stuff in a new way??!

I'm also wondering, what kind of requirements should I expect from myself concerning the know-how, before ever buying a high-end product like the Seaton Sound system?
Even if I could afford them, I would feel kinda "ashamed" to buy probably one of the best sounding audio systems in the world, and then not having a clue how to calibrate them or how to place a couple of subwoofers in a room or how to use an EQ etc etc!!!
And still, I LOVE a good sound when I hear it! I just have no idea how to get there by myself, lol [smile]

I hope to learn a lot here, I would like to finish my own introduction by asking one last question:
Is it to assume correctly, that the rosenut finish is somewhat of a darker red finish than the red cherry veneer? I've seen different pictures, they all look differently watching them on different computer screens...I'm having a hard time distinguishing their true color... in one instance, the rosenut stands out, in another picture offered, the red cherry seems to be either the same color or somewhat lighter! 

Also there was a picture of something that Mark called a "marlot" finish. Is that also an official finish still? Or is that replaced by rosenut or something else?
Those are the colors exciting me the most I think... since I can not have a first hand look here in Sweden, I just need to ask a lot [smile]

Happy to be here guys [smile]
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calentz
If you have a language barrier, it is certainly not apparent in your post.  Welcome!
Carl
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Antibody
calentz wrote:
If you have a language barrier, it is certainly not apparent in your post.  Welcome!

LOL!
Thx man, appreciate it! I've always been good at the written language, communication skills become even more important in this world when neither your first or second language is English [smile]
Taking part in such forums and discussions is one of the best ways to improve my language skills further!
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Kain
Welcome! I had a SubMersive shipped all the way from the US to Dubai in 2009 and I'm still enjoying it! [smile]

Hopefully one day I'll have a full Seaton Sound setup.
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FOH
Welcome Antibody, that's quite the first post!  
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Antibody
Thank you guys for the welcome!

@Kain:
Not bad mate! I have no idea what kinda import fees apply in Dubai (very nice place btw!) but the total sum of all import fees, special taxes and EU taxes being enforced on anything entering into Sweden from outside the EU, puts just about an additional 50% charge to the original declared value of the product being imported [frown] So for every $1000 worth of merchandise I'd have to pay at least another $500 just to get it out of the customs office!

@FOH:
Thank you! I have no idea how I could have been missing out on this place for so long! And despite of an empty pocket, I'm already having dreams about waking up and finding at least 4 Submersives, 4 Cat 12C:s as fronts and rears, a Cat 8C/12C as a center and at least a couple of additional 8C:s as surrounds... all of them placed into my 1800sqf living room! [biggrin] Now is that really too much to ask?! LOL!

The hardest part really would be to decide between a brown Espresso, a Red Cherry or maybe a Merlot (or is it the same as the Rosenut?) finish!!! Of course I wouldn't mind the piano finish either...

Any shark billionaires willing to make an investment in my fantastic personality?! Well I could even consider putting 50% of my soul on the table if anyone would be interested... in exchange for buying me the above package LOL!!!
[biggrin]
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audioguy
For those of you who have a number of Mark's products in your theater, you know that all of those LED's can really lighten up your room.

Just found these. I've been using gaffer's tape but these look pretty cool; http://www.lightdims.com
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BrolicBeast
audioguy wrote:
For those of you who have a number of Mark's products in your theater, you know that all of those LED's can really lighten up your room. Just found these. I've been using gaffer's tape but these look pretty cool; http://www.lightdims.com


I use these on my monoblock amplifiers. they work VERY well.  Be sure to get the Blackout versions, as some version only dim the light.
Home Theater is a Way of Life
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