TheRick
Mark (or anyone else)

Do you have any working knowledge of a system with this amp?  After our talk the other day, I'm trying to figure out how much more power I'll need and if 7x200watts will cover it.  I like the individual mono-block style of this amp.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Rick
Proud Submersive Owner! "Shakin the Midwest!"
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MikeDuke
What speakers are you using?
I simply love this stuff.
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TheRick
I've still got my Rockets....but I have plans to upgrade those over the summer. 

My reasons for the new power amp....is that Mark said that WHEN I get my four Submersives....I'll need it for the rest of the speakers to keep up.     WOO HOO!!!
Proud Submersive Owner! "Shakin the Midwest!"
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MikeDuke
That is true.  You will need some power to keep up with 4 submersives.  I think 200 watts of power would be the minimum for those speakers.  I am not sure which ones you have. I just took a quick look. It seems like they all have a sensitivity of 87db and dip to about 5ohms.  That to me means you need at least 200 watts and could probably do more if you wanted. What are you upgrading to over the summer?
As a comparison, my L/R speakers are rated at 91db have a nominal impedance of 8ohms and dip down to 3.5ohms.  I have 300 watts going to them now.  But, I plan to get another amp in the future that has less power but it is a much better amp.  I heard it in my system and I was floored.  But you should fine with 200 watts.

I simply love this stuff.
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Mark_Seaton
That's a pretty beefy amp with nearly 200W @ 8 Ohms and 300W @ 4 Ohms IIRC.  That said, I would expect that we will continue to see more amplifiers delivering 250+W @ 8 Ohms over the next year or two.  It does appear to be a rather good value.  Personally I'm usually a fan of shared power supplies for multi-channel amplifiers leaving more on tap for each channel in real world conditions while saving some costs, but both can be executed well.

As usual the Emotiva gear is priced very competitively.  Tough call.  While slightly more expensive (not much), I have a little higher confidence and preference for the Outlaw amps such as the 7200, 7700, and of course the upcoming behemoth 7900 (at ~2x the $).  While amp specs don't tell you everything, I do very much like the 119-120dB S/N spec of the Outlaws ove the 100dB spec of the MPS-2.  If it were me, I'd probably spend the extra $300 to get the balanced version of the Outlaw amp, but both look like good values, and I'd still consider waiting things out.

My 2c...
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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MikeDuke
Right,
I forgot about Outlaw.  They need to be looked at also as viable option.

I simply love this stuff.
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TheRick
Cool.  Thanks guys!    I'm not sure I could use the 300watt/channel amp of the Outlaws.  That thing requires 2 power plugs even. 

What I liked about the Emotiva (and these are slight) is that it looks nicer...and has individual mono-block amps so if something goes wrong you can just replace that channel. 

However, I currently own an Outlaw amp...and have had no problems with it.  So, I would like to keep purchasing from them.  With a stamp from Mark...I'll definitely be doing more research now.     

Thanks guys!
Proud Submersive Owner! "Shakin the Midwest!"
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TheRick
Mark,

At quick glance (and I don't know squat about this) the Emotiva says S/N = 100db "unweighted" and the Outlaw says S/N = > 120db "rated FTC full bandwidth power".    Are those still apple to apple comparisons?

Thanks for all of the knowledge Mate!

Rick
Proud Submersive Owner! "Shakin the Midwest!"
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mfine
I would also look at the Emo XPA series right now.  The XPA-5 appears to match very well with the specs on the 7500 and the XPA-2 looks like a beast, especially if you get a set of them to run in bridged mono. 

The >100 db signal to noise ratio for all intents and purposes means you will not be able to hear the noise so I would not pay double for the extra 20 db that Outlaw rates their amps at.  I would love to hear a good head to head comparo on the sonic differences though.  Based on semi reliable reviews of past models I would expect the emo to have a slightly warmer characteristic but that is pretty speculative at this point.  Also to get an idea of what I think Mark was implying with the single PS, check out the power rating for the XPA-5....

  • 200 watts RMS/channel into 8 ohms, all channels driven
    • 5 channels - 8 ohm = 210 watts per channel
    • 4 channels - 8 ohm = 230 watts per channel
    • 3 channels - 8 ohm = 252 watts per channel
    • 2 channels - 8 ohm = 275 watts per channel
    • 1 channel - 8 ohm = 300 watts per channel

  • 4 ohm rating:
    • 5 channels - 4 ohm = 350 watts per channel
    • 4 channels - 4 ohm = 375 watts per channel
    • 3 channels - 4 ohm = 400 watts per channel
    • 2 channels - 4 ohm = 450 watts per channel
    • 1 channel - 4 ohms = 500 watts per channel
Since with real world material you rarely have all channels driven hard at the same time, you get extra power to the channel that needs it.  For example, if you have a lot of signal going to the center, but not much to the other channels (common in movies) the center can pull 50% more power than the "all channels driven" rating which I am not sure the MPS architecture will allow, but the Outlaws should.  Use a XPA-2 (or a pair of them) for the mains and an XPA-5 for the remaining channels, and you basically have a 300 watt amp for your center the way 99%+ movies are mixed, and 250 (or 1000) for the mains. 

Of course 3 brigded XPA-2's up front and an XPA 5 for the remaining 4 channels would also be sweet.  That gives you PLENTY of juice for the front 3 plus at least 230 watts per channel for the rear 4 (all 4 pushed at once) and it will only run you $3200 compared to $3500 for the Outlaw 7700 beast.

EDIT:  XPA-2 power specs to add fuel to the fire.  Notice the ability to fully double wattage when the ohms are cut in half, a sign of serious current on tap.

  • Power output: 250 watts RMS/ channel into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS/ channel into 4 ohms and 1000 watts RMS bridged.
  • THD+N at rated power output: 0.007%


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mfine
TheRick wrote:
Cool.  Thanks guys!    I'm not sure I could use the 300watt/channel amp of the Outlaws.  That thing requires 2 power plugs even. 


Oh don't go all girly on us Rick!  See my solution above with the Emo XPA's that will use 4 power plugs and deliver 1000 watts each to the LCR's.  THAT is manly power worthy of a 4 SubMersive system if you ask me. 
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TheRick
I'm hearing someone tell me to "man up" when they haven't even seen WOTW?     Talk about a "girly man". 

You have to remember that of the limited outlets in a given room, that I am going to have 4 Submersives plugged in, each with a 1000 watt amplifier in tow.        That leaves few for the Blu-ray, Pre, DPS-30, Denon, ICBM, Cable Box, Projector, and my blinking neon "Mark Seaton was here" sign with the big arrow.  LOL!  

Thanks for the specs.  The PS thing makes sense.  I'm not buying multiple amps though.  I already have afriend trying to talk me into Dodd mono-blocks for the LCR speakers.  LOL!     It sounds like he talked to you too.  LOL!
Proud Submersive Owner! "Shakin the Midwest!"
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mfine
TheRick wrote:
I'm hearing someone tell me to "man up" when they haven't even seen WOTW?     Talk about a "girly man". 


Hmm I guess I might even be a "girly boy" if you also include my single SubMersive status.
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mfine
TheRick wrote:
I already have afriend trying to talk me into Dodd mono-blocks for the LCR speakers.  LOL!     It sounds like he talked to you too.  LOL!


Sounds like a  good friend to have, although I think the bid Dodd's are a little on the pricey side.  I prefer high value products like the XPA-2 as a 1000 watt mono amp for less than 1/10th the cost of a 260 watt Dodd.  That and I can barely afford the Emmo gear these days, let alone three of those budget busters!
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TheRick
It might be hard to call him friend if he was pushing me toward the $30k Dodd amps.     I think he's egging me on toward the $5k amps.   LOL   (He must think I'm made of money or something)

I think I still like Mark's recommendations for things.  He rarely recommends anything over $3k/item.     
Proud Submersive Owner! "Shakin the Midwest!"
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mfine
TheRick wrote:

I think I still like Mark's recommendations for things.  He rarely recommends anything over $3k/item.     


Yeah but he always recommends multiples so it adds up fast
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TheRick

Only when it comes to subwoofers....then it's usually in pairs.       See, you didn't take his advice.....get it on order Mate.  

Proud Submersive Owner! "Shakin the Midwest!"
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