sandbagger
UFW-12 amp only upgrade now available.  $200.00

This kit requires you to send me your amp and I make extensive component changes to make the stock driver work properly.  These changes are very similar to those done in my big block kit, but not exactly the same.

These amp changes fix and make the UFW-12 a very capable sub.  The result is a natural sealed output response that will couple to your room thus getting usable output down to the low teens.  The limiter has been reworked and now instead of getting all kinds of crazy noises that send you running for the volume control, you wont even notice it when you get into it.  All this with greater output too.

I sent mark the output graphs to look at and post up, as soon as this is done I will unlock this thread so everyone can discuss.



Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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Mark_Seaton
Hi guys,

Below is a quick look at the near field response curves for the UFW-15 Big Block upgrade (red), the UFW-12 Amp Modification upgrade (blue), and a measurement of a stock UFW-12 as delivered from AV123 (green):



You can immediately see the much smoother response above 25Hz, and the much more gradual roll off below 25Hz allowing for much more real and perceived VLF energy in most any room.  In more common size rooms you will get the added benefit of useful response into the teens.  What you can't see is the much better overload characteristics, which make both of the upgrade kits much more fun with soundtracks like War of the Worlds or Master & Commander. 

I very much look forward to the thoughts of the first few taking advantage of the amp only upgrade given how much easier the upgrade task is in terms of simply removing, shipping and replacing the amplifier.  Kevin and I even have some original UFW-12 cabinets in decent shape from AV123(obtained prior to closing) which Kevin will offer with the updated components.

Feel free to tell your friends.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Stereodude
It's looking good!

This should make some people happy.

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summit3907
sent email to kevin.  looking forward to this upgrade - even with the sub 8-10 db lower than i would normally have it, it was clipping frequently during 'iron man' at reasonably high volumes. 

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dgenske
What's the turn-around time for this small block option?  I'd also like to know what gets changed for $200...  Is it possible to purchase a modified amp outright and then return the old one for credit?  (Same basic premise if you have a stock of amplifiers.  Just hoping to minimize down time...)
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sandbagger
dgenske wrote:
What's the turn-around time for this small block option?  I'd also like to know what gets changed for $200...  Is it possible to purchase a modified amp outright and then return the old one for credit?  (Same basic premise if you have a stock of amplifiers.  Just hoping to minimize down time...)


I am not to sure people would like not getting their amplifier back.... and I am not real crazy about that either. 

Turn around time is quick, once I get it, depending on my work load, a few days and I can get it shipped back out.  At worst I might have it a week, but generally I am pretty quick.
Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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dgenske
That's a good point and the turn-around is quick. Thanks again and I'll consider my options and timing for big block upgrade vs small block.
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Basshead
I'm down for 2 of these as soon as my money gets right again.

Thanks for your efforts.

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summit3907
got the amp back earlier this week.  quick turnaround by kevin, and the amp was packaged back in the same sung container as i sent it it.  initial impressions are very positive.  haven't had much time to listen critically, but the most obvious improvement is in the behavior at the limit. 

i cranked up an early scene die hard 4 (attempted hit against justin long's character) to the point where the amp was full in the red, and there were no 'farting' sounds at all.  very controlled, very powerful.  the speed seemed quite nice, with solid and quick thumping on the machine gun fire - probably 6-8 shots per sec, all clearly defined and not muddy at all.  played some music at high volume, and the sub retained its positive performance with the basslines.

to be honest, with the old amp i never really cranked it because the clipping was just too irritating, so i don't have a good feel on the increased output.  still dialing in the calibration, but it seems like the overall output level might be slightly lower than before.  nothing a little gain can't fix.

no question, a very well spent $200.  the sub has gained a new lease on life.
k

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sandbagger
Summit

Glad you are enjoying it

One thing I have to do is also change some components in the input gain circuit, and while it is close to the same output it is not exactly the same as before.   All it takes is just a slight tweek to the knob for the input level from say 10 to 10:30 or so.

Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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ZooMan
My ufw-12 was upgraded to the HotRod, now the amp died, I have the original UFW-12 amp that works, what are my options?

Thanks

Ken
Ken
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sandbagger
You are now the 3rd or 4th that I have heard from that has had an amp die.

If you have the old amp I can modify it (eq,limiting) so it will work properly with the HR driver.   I havent done this yet, but I do have a customer local that I can use his sub to dial everything in since I dont have a HR driver to use.

Send me an email support@motorcitycustomaudio.com and we can talk about it further.
Kevin

ZooMan wrote:
My ufw-12 was upgraded to the HotRod, now the amp died, I have the original UFW-12 amp that works, what are my options?

Thanks

Ken
Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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DrMark
I have a UFW-12 with the hot-rod upgrade.  Do you know how either of your upgrades would compare to a hot-roded UFW-12?  I ask because even with the hot-rod upgrade, I still have problems with the sub hitting its limits and making horrible clipping sounds.

Thanks,

--Mark
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Stereodude
DrMark wrote:
I have a UFW-12 with the hot-rod upgrade.  Do you know how either of your upgrades would compare to a hot-roded UFW-12?  I ask because even with the hot-rod upgrade, I still have problems with the sub hitting its limits and making horrible clipping sounds.

Thanks,

--Mark

Do you still have the original driver and amp?  I would guess The amp only upgrade would be comparable in output to what you got from AV321.gone.
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sandbagger
Mark

The original amp mod to work with the HR driver that I am doing should be much more pleasant when pushed to the extremes.  The output the levels should be close and even a bit more for mine, although I dont have any experience with what a FUNCTIONING UFW-12HR amp will do. 

The BigBlock kit uses a 15" driver built by the same manufacturer as the HR driver from AV123.  This kit will did a little deeper and give you more SPL all while being very controlled when pushed to its limits due to the amp modifications I do.

DrMark wrote:
I have a UFW-12 with the hot-rod upgrade.  Do you know how either of your upgrades would compare to a hot-roded UFW-12?  I ask because even with the hot-rod upgrade, I still have problems with the sub hitting its limits and making horrible clipping sounds.

Thanks,

--Mark
Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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DrMark
I do have both the original amp and driver (sitting in a box), and the hot-rod driver and amp installed.

I'll contact Kevin through PM to discuss my options.

--Mark
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EdS
I have a UFW-12HR, no longer have the original amp or driver. The HR had been working without issue for a couple of months, now it is beginning to make strange sounds at start-up, and sounds like it might be clipping when pushed hard. Will there be a replacement amp available for those of us that have performed the HR upgrade and now have amp issues (and no longer have the original amp)?
Thanks!
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sandbagger
YES, is the short easy answer.   I am currently working on the rework of the amp to work properly with the HR driver from av123 for the UFW-12.  I will also be able to supply 1000Watt amps that are a direct drop in with the same changes I make to existing amps for those of you that do not have the original amp still.

EdS wrote:
I have a UFW-12HR, no longer have the original amp or driver. The HR had been working without issue for a couple of months, now it is beginning to make strange sounds at start-up, and sounds like it might be clipping when pushed hard. Will there be a replacement amp available for those of us that have performed the HR upgrade and now have amp issues (and no longer have the original amp)?
Thanks!
Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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Stereodude
EdS wrote:
I have a UFW-12HR, no longer have the original amp or driver. The HR had been working without issue for a couple of months, now it is beginning to make strange sounds at start-up, and sounds like it might be clipping when pushed hard. Will there be a replacement amp available for those of us that have performed the HR upgrade and now have amp issues (and no longer have the original amp)?
Thanks!

I guess the adage about avoiding AV321 products that have power cords were spot on.  I know the RDES was the biggest flaming pile of excrement ever.  I have two of them and they're so crappy I wouldn't even think of giving them away lest the new owner come hunt me down and kill me as retribution.
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EdS

That's great news, if my UFW-12HR can work as well as when the HR amp was new & w/o issues it will more than meet my music & HT needs.

sandbagger wrote:
YES, is the short easy answer.   I am currently working on the rework of the amp to work properly with the HR driver from av123 for the UFW-12.  I will also be able to supply 1000Watt amps that are a direct drop in with the same changes I make to existing amps for those of you that do not have the original amp still.

EdS wrote:
I have a UFW-12HR, no longer have the original amp or driver. The HR had been working without issue for a couple of months, now it is beginning to make strange sounds at start-up, and sounds like it might be clipping when pushed hard. Will there be a replacement amp available for those of us that have performed the HR upgrade and now have amp issues (and no longer have the original amp)?
Thanks!

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Basshead
How were the measurements taken (outdoor, nearfield,etc)?

Also, how would the small block graph look if you were measuring dual UFW-12, stacked and corner loaded?

Thanks


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sandbagger
Basshead

The graph posted by mark was taken by me, as stated it was NearField.  It was also taken outdoors to further minimize any interactions.  They were also taken with a calibrated mic and the cal file for the mic and soundcard was used

If you were to co-locate 2 subs you could expect to get about 6db, sometimes you dont always get all of that, but its generally close.  it will depend on YOUR room and location with it.

As for how the graph will look in your room(its very room dependent), I have no idea, its a Carp Shoot without measuring it. If its a reasonable size SEALED room, you should see a fair amount of boundry gain down low.

Basshead wrote:
How were the measurements taken (outdoor, nearfield,etc)?

Also, how would the small block graph look if you were measuring dual UFW-12, stacked and corner loaded?

Thanks


Kevin
Motor City Custom Audio
http://motorcitycustomaudio.com/
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EdS

I was one of the "lucky" ones whom had a UFW-12HR amp which become marginal, began making weird sounds at power-up, sometimes had a steady-state background hum, and sounded as though it was clipping when driven low and hard.

I purchased a replacement HR amp from Kevin, probably took all of 10-15 minutes to pull the old amp and drop-in the new one. Did some quick adjustments to obtain similar overall volume from the previous amp (using a Denon 4306, and I didn't have the time to rerun Audyssey). New amp sounds great, no hum, no clipping, not even a click or bump when the unit turns on. I've attached the response of the old amp vs. new amp, SW is in the same position. Interesting that Kevin's amp has better response on the low end, I'm guessing the original HR amp was running out of gas when pushed hard.

Highly recommended for anyone sitting on the fence wondering whether or not to replace their HR amp, I don't believe there is a better solution for the $$.




Click image for larger version - Name: HR-12_Amp_Upgrade.JPG, Views: 348, Size: 39.59 KB
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Mark_Seaton
Interesting to see the difference in the response.  There are a few possible reasons for that, but I suspect that AV123 shipped HR amps with the wrong EQ curve, ie not the one Doug had programmed, even though what he did still wasn't what I had intended and you get with the the Small Block upgrade.  The amp used in the HR was effectively the same as what was used in the UFW-10 signature edition on a larger plate.  It made plenty of power, but I suspect that AV123 got lazy and didn't do the correct modifications Doug had specified to many of the amps shipped for the HR kit.  The differences seen above would suggest that is the case.

Enjoy your fully operational subwoofer, and report back after you have some more time to listen!

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
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Kinn
I initially bought the original UFW-12 for a dedicated music system, but due to turning two rooms into one, I have to to use the UFW-12 for movies every once in a while. I thought it sounded great for music, and blends in quite well with my ATC monitors. However, when I played my first movie with the sub in moderate volume, I think I cried a little inside, as if i just threw my hard earned money in the toilet. 

Thankfully, I was able to buy a Def tech Supercube One for under 500, which despite its 13hz claim, sounded great for movies. That little 10" sub with two passive 10s raped the UFW-12, and barely gave out when 20hz tones were called for. 

So now what, I have a big 135pd sub in the basement that I hate to move, and it sees little use. It actually acts as a pedestal for the supercube 1, as I have no other place for another subwoofer. Its quite an eye sore. 

So here are some questions I have before I decided to go for the small block upgrade.

1.  My room is on the small side,14x18 enclosed room. Sub is corner loaded. I understand you posted a graph of near-field measurements, but I have no clue how to determine its meaning in a normal room. Would upgrading the amplifier allow the sub to hit 20hz with authority (of course I am not asking for 20hz performace similiar to the seaton subwoofer or JL subs. Just something tolerable), minus the mechanical noise?

2. I am not handy, and the last time i soldered something, i nearly destroyed the entire component. When I remove the amplifier, do I have to de-solder anything, and vice versa when I have to place the amplifier back?

3. I know this is a very forward question, as you are coming in from a business angle, and you may or may not want to answer it.  I love the way the UFW-12 look in the birds eye maple finish, and want to have only one subwoofer in the room. After the small block upgrade, would the UFW-12 be comparable to say my Supercube One, or its original performance specs?

Thank You very much, and I look foward to doing business with Motor City, 

Kin C Poon
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