Mark_Seaton
Please note this thread is more than 5 years old.   We have since updated and added many cabinet options as well as adding our SubMersive HP version and upgrade option for original customers (110-120V operation only).  Please find more details in this post which is regularly updated.


So what is the SubMersive?

Here's the short list of what makes a SubMersive:
  • Dual, custom designed, 15" drivers with 3" diameter voice coils
  • A sealed enlcosure constructed only 20 miles from our warehouse with precision CNC cut and lock mitered construction.
  • Drivers on opposing faces for a completely inert, stablized cabinet that won't walk, shake or quiver. 
  • A robust, high efficiency, 1,000W ICEpower based amplifier with SMPS power supply.
  • Isolated balanced input eliminating common ground loop problems
  • Cabinet dimensions: 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H
  • Frequency response: +/-3dB 19-200Hz - outdoor ground plane

I will be adding more details here, including pictures, but let's start with the outdoor, ground plane measurement (arbitrary level, not maximum):
SubMersive 1m, ground plane response

More photos of our various finishes can be found in this thread.

You can also read much more in the original thread posted by our own "Grew" (aka WarrenBuffet on AVS) with his experience with a pair of SubMersives.  This thread then continued as a primary discussion thread regarding the SubMersive on AVS Forum:
Seaton Sound SubMersive1 Thread on AVS Forum

From that thread, here are some pictures of the SubMersives in Grew's system:



And of course we cannot forget Art Sonneborn's system where I integrated 4, yes FOUR SubMersives with the prototype Catalyst powered main speakers:

A look behind Art Sonneborn's Screen Wall

More to come...

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0
MikeDuke
All I can say is that this sub is simply fantastic.  I think I had one of the biggest grins on my face after Mark set it up and I listened to it.  Just incredible SQ and output.  This matches what I experienced with the JM Labs Sub Utopia Be.  It is a whole other level.  I know my room is nothing like Arts.  But I am very pleased with the overall results of the sub and calibration.
I simply love this stuff.
Quote 0 0
HTMARINE

already had complaints from the neighbors

Click image for larger version - Name: mark&wayne.jpg, Views: 38432, Size: 39.81 KB Click image for larger version - Name: submersivefront.jpg, Views: 39052, Size: 40.48 KB
Click image for larger version - Name: submersiverear.jpg, Views: 38183, Size: 36.06 KB
Live for today and hope for tomorrow!
Quote 0 0
WG
Mark,

Does the Submersive have High Pass & Low Pass Crossovers? If so, what are they and what order? Phase control? Is there a manual for it yet? What type of warranty are you offering on the unit?

Thanks in advance,
Will
Quote 0 0
Mark_Seaton

WG wrote:
Mark,

Does the Submersive have High Pass & Low Pass Crossovers? If so, what are they and what order? Phase control? Is there a manual for it yet? What type of warranty are you offering on the unit?

Thanks in advance,
Will

Hi Will,

The SubMersive's amplifier does not have a variable high/low pass crossover, as almost all surround processors have a 4th order low pass incorporated into their bass management setup.  In a dedicated stereo system, I much prefer an outboard crossover that will then allow the mains to be relieved of their deep bass duty.  In systems that would typically use a SubMersive for stereo listening, I feel an outboard crossover is well justified, as most won't route the signal through a subwoofer in such a system.

I recommend users incorporate some form of EQ, be it internal to their processor, or an external device like a Velodyne SMS-1 to maximize performance.  The SMS-1 makes it easy to see the approximate in-room frequency response.  Other external EQs and DSP processors are more capable and more flexible, but require a measurement system to make useful settings.  Room EQ Wizard is free software that is quite capable for this purpose, and there are also programs like TrueRTA if you want to add this very useful capability.  Of course you can also hire someone to aid in this sort of optimization.  The HAA organization is a good place to start looking for professionals in your area.  I'll come back later and add in some links to HAA and Room EQ Wizard.

The manual is still a work in progress.  Warranty is 3 years from time of receipt of the subwoofer.  The Warranty covers any defects in materials and workmanship, excluding obvious misuse or accidental damage.

Thank you for the questions.  Please feel free to e-mail or PM me with any specific purchase related questions.

Best Regards,
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0
alhull
Mark - good to see you got a dedicated forum running now.

I can attest to the unbelievable power of Art's setup with 4 Submersives.  Before trying this at home be sure your home insurance is paid up - you are sure the lift the house right off the foundation.

Listening to just 1 Submersive at Sandbagger's place last year was impressive - it pressures the room enough to blow the theater room door open with force.  And despite that, a nickel balanced against an empty glass bottle on top of the sub during loud passages didn't even vibrate.  Truly amazing!
Regards,

Al
Quote 0 0
WG
Mark,

I'm not sure my email  availability question went through, so I thought I would follow here.

What is current lead time from order to shipment on the Submersive?

 

I have read where other finish options are available with 6-8 lead time.  What upgrade finishes are you offering and what is the upcharge for this?

 

Thanks,

Will


Quote 0 0
Mark_Seaton
WG wrote:
Mark,

I'm not sure my email  availability question went through, so I thought I would follow here.

What is current lead time from order to shipment on the Submersive? 

I have read where other finish options are available with 6-8 lead time.  What upgrade finishes are you offering and what is the upcharge for this?

Thanks,

Will

 

Hi Will,

 

I did get your e-mail, sorry for the delayed response, as I've have a bit of a backlog this week.  Others would probably find the answers of interest, so I'll post here...

 

Currently lead time is about 1 week.  I have more cabinets on order, so after the current units ship out, delivery will be about 5 weeks from now due to the lead time on the cabinets.

 

Customs at this point would be through local custom furniture makers I have relationships with.  As such, these options will be $600-1500 (mostly labor) depending on the finish desired.  I have not requested quotes on specific finshes as of yet.  The current offer of $1995, with shipping included(see details here) will extend for orders placed before August 15th.

 

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0
WG
Mark,

Thanks for the answers. I will email you next to pursue purchase.

Regards,
Will
Quote 0 0
rossandwendy
Hi Mark,
 
I am considering a Submersive purchase.  I currently own dual HSU VTF-3 MK3 subs and find they sound best (better mid-bass impact and overall dynamics) when ran in max output mode which is tuned to 22hz and gives me good response to 20hz but falls off a cliff below that.  HSU is recommending their MBM-12 mid-bass module as the solution (and then running the VTF-3.3's in 17hz tuning) but I really don't want to add another box and it seems to me there must be a sub out there that can play both deep and dynamic across the frequency spectrum.  Do you think a single Submersive would provide better in-room extension below 20hz while still giving excellent mid-bass response compared to the dual 3.3's?  And do you think the Submersive would have at least as much max SPL across the spectrum as two co-located VTF-3.3's (based on Illka's recent tests that I know you've seen)?  The room is 2800cu.ft. sealed.
 
Thank you,
Ross
Quote 0 0
MikeDuke
rossandwendy wrote:
Hi Mark,
 
I am considering a Submersive purchase.  I currently own dual HSU VTF-3 MK3 subs and find they sound best (better mid-bass impact and overall dynamics) when ran in max output mode which is tuned to 22hz and gives me good response to 20hz but falls off a cliff below that.  HSU is recommending their MBM-12 mid-bass module as the solution (and then running the VTF-3.3's in 17hz tuning) but I really don't want to add another box and it seems to me there must be a sub out there that can play both deep and dynamic across the frequency spectrum.  Do you think a single Submersive would provide better in-room extension below 20hz while still giving excellent mid-bass response compared to the dual 3.3's?  And do you think the Submersive would have at least as much max SPL across the spectrum as two co-located VTF-3.3's (based on Illka's recent tests that I know you've seen)?  The room is 2800cu.ft. sealed.
 
Thank you,
Ross

I am not Mark but I will through my thoughts in anyway.  I think you would be in heaven with one SubMersive in that size room.  Mark has consistenly got down to at least 10Hz in most rooms even with one sub.  My room is small (1000cf),  Mark measured 8hz in my room.  The output will be plenty IMO.   One of his subs would be killer in a room that size.  Trust me.
I simply love this stuff.
Quote 0 0
rossandwendy
Thanks MikeDuke, I appreciate your feedback and I have read your other posts with great interest.  I am hoping Mark can also share his thoughts on this comparison.

Cheers,
Ross

Quote 0 0
Mark_Seaton
rossandwendy wrote:
Hi Mark,
 
I am considering a Submersive purchase.  I currently own dual HSU VTF-3 MK3 subs and find they sound best (better mid-bass impact and overall dynamics) when ran in max output mode which is tuned to 22hz and gives me good response to 20hz but falls off a cliff below that.  HSU is recommending their MBM-12 mid-bass module as the solution (and then running the VTF-3.3's in 17hz tuning) but I really don't want to add another box and it seems to me there must be a sub out there that can play both deep and dynamic across the frequency spectrum.  Do you think a single Submersive would provide better in-room extension below 20hz while still giving excellent mid-bass response compared to the dual 3.3's?  And do you think the Submersive would have at least as much max SPL across the spectrum as two co-located VTF-3.3's (based on Illka's recent tests that I know you've seen)?  The room is 2800cu.ft. sealed.
 
Thank you,
Ross


Hi Ross,

The full data on Ilkka's latest round of testing has not yet been posted.  The data posted is for a burst signal and peak reading which is quite different from the slower sweeps of past tests.  I have a good idea of what to expect from it, but it's still an educated guess.  Illka did note that the maximums observed in the sweeps were on average 6dB lower than the peak values noted, but there is a LOT more to it than that.

The short answer is that in a 2800 cu.ft. room, there is no question the SubMersive will provide deeper in-room extension than the VTF-3 Mk3 in maximum output mode, and the output across the range should be equal or greater at most frequencies.  The output of the dual 3.3's will probably converge with that of the SubMersive near their tuning frequency, with the SubMersive pulling ahead over the rest of the range with less compression where the 3.3s' ports will be working their hardest.  Pricing aside, that's a fairly impressive feat for a subwoofer which isn't much larger than a single 3.3.

Upper bass dynamics are one of the SubMersive's strengths, paralleling its lack of compression within its limits.  The SubMersive in fact has greater upper bass headroom than the MBM-12 based on Ilkka's posted data.  I suspect the continuous output capabilities of the SubMersive above 40Hz is close to that of two MBM-12s.  As you have likely read in cruzmisl's recent descriptions of his experience, the SubMersive is highly capable in terms of dynamic impact.  You won't need an additional subwoofer to add more upper bass impact.  Of course if you can fit dual 3.3's, you likely would have room to one day have a pair of SubMersives, which just gives you more of everything, and a little more room to experiment with the lowest frequencies.

Cheers,
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0
rossandwendy

Mark_Seaton wrote:

The full data on Ilkka's latest round of testing has not yet been posted.  The data posted is for a burst signal and peak reading which is quite different from the slower sweeps of past tests.  I have a good idea of what to expect from it, but it's still an educated guess.  Illka did note that the maximums observed in the sweeps were on average 6dB lower than the peak values noted, but there is a LOT more to it than that.

The short answer is that in a 2800 cu.ft. room, there is no question the SubMersive will provide deeper in-room extension than the VTF-3 Mk3 in maximum output mode, and the output across the range should be equal or greater at most frequencies.  The output of the dual 3.3's will probably converge with that of the SubMersive near their tuning frequency, with the SubMersive pulling ahead over the rest of the range with less compression where the 3.3s' ports will be working their hardest.  Pricing aside, that's a fairly impressive feat for a subwoofer which isn't much larger than a single 3.3.

Upper bass dynamics are one of the SubMersive's strengths, paralleling its lack of compression within its limits.  The SubMersive in fact has greater upper bass headroom than the MBM-12 based on Ilkka's posted data.  I suspect the continuous output capabilities of the SubMersive above 40Hz is close to that of two MBM-12s.  As you have likely read in cruzmisl's recent descriptions of his experience, the SubMersive is highly capable in terms of dynamic impact.  You won't need an additional subwoofer to add more upper bass impact.  Of course if you can fit dual 3.3's, you likely would have room to one day have a pair of SubMersives, which just gives you more of everything, and a little more room to experiment with the lowest frequencies.

Mark, thank you for your very informative reply.  So it seems the gentle rolloff of the SubMersive would definitely provide greater in-room extension below 20hz than the VTF-3.3 while simultaneously not giving up any of the dynamic headroom of dual 3.3's, and that combination of infrasonics plus mid-bass impact is what I am craving.  I hope to place a SubMersive order right after we close on our new house in 3 to 4 weeks.

I have read everything I could find on the net that you have written about this sub and I am not only extremely intrigued with the product, but also thoroughly impressed with your vast knowledge and the way you patiently answer questions and explain the details. 

Best,
Ross 
Quote 0 0
freeflap
hi Mark,

I am interested in your submersive. I have a HT / Basement setup. that is 25' x 45' x 8'. it's a large open space and about 1/2 is used as a HT. The other half is kids play area. It is fully carpeted. I currently have a 118" front projector with an RBH 5.1 setup (1266se / 661se / 61se) and a Axiom EP500 sub with an AV123 UFW10. it looks and sounds great, but I am always looking for a little more bass. I am guessing that one of your submersives with my Axiom EP500 as a filler would do well. I would move the UFW10 to bedroom or office. I use it for filler to help with nodal spots. any thoughts? also, if i were to do this, what is the time frame from ordering to delivery? are they available now, or do you make each to order? thx.

ben



http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s290/freeflap/?action=view&current=IMG_2959_15_1.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s290/freeflap/IMG_2958_14_1.jpg

PS: how do i attach pics?
thx


Quote 0 0
mfine

Mark,

I sent you an email on the 22nd and have not heard back.  Let me know if you need me to resend.  I think I need to order a Submersive in case I win MLS's in the raffle.  I wouldn't want it to be lonely in its new home, and besides if I am going to have 2 Marks visit for a setup, the least I could do is have 2 subs waiting for you

Quote 0 0
mfine
Helloooooooooo,  anyone home, or are you off golfing, or perhaps heli skiing in the Himalayas?

I am setting up a front projector system and if I can't buy a sub soon I am going to have to watch nothing but chick flicks and old musicals until I go insane.  You don't don't want that do you?  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take my credit card info and send me a Submersive, my sanity, and the safety of the Western world depends on it!

Quote 0 0
Mark_Seaton
Hi mfine,

We can't have you relegated to chick flicks.  That's for sure!

I'm about to head out of town on a day-trip.  I will be back this evening and intend to get out responses to anyone I owe a response tonight and through the weekend.

I am currently awaiting more cabinets, but they are coming soon.  My expectation is that I'll have more SubMersives to ship the week of August 13th.

Thanks for your patience.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0
mfine
Oh thank you so much, I think I can endure 2 more weeks of Sleepless in Seatle and Thelma and Louise. 


Quote 0 0
cletus

I have limited options in placement and the primary spot would require the submersive to point drivers forward and aft. (In the right corner of the room. ) Forward into the livingroom which is perfect but aft. into the wall. Would this be a problem and if not, how many inches can it be minimum from the wall? Thanks!

Quote 0 0
MikeDuke
cletus wrote:

I have limited options in placement and the primary spot would require the submersive to point drivers forward and aft. (In the right corner of the room. ) Forward into the livingroom which is perfect but aft. into the wall. Would this be a problem and if not, how many inches can it be minimum from the wall? Thanks!


Cletus, I have mine in back corner of the room with just that configuration. 
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/seatonsound/vpost?id=1940876
I know Mark wanted the front of the room, but it was affecting my TV.  That is about where it is now in regards to the wall.
I simply love this stuff.
Quote 0 0
Mark_Seaton
cletus wrote:

I have limited options in placement and the primary spot would require the submersive to point drivers forward and aft. (In the right corner of the room. ) Forward into the livingroom which is perfect but aft. into the wall. Would this be a problem and if not, how many inches can it be minimum from the wall? Thanks!


Hi cletus,

As Mike's system is a good example of, the SubMersive can certainly have either driver fire "into" a wall or corner.  Assuming there is some open area above the sub (not under a shelf or bookcase), you only need 3" or more of clearance.  The corner placement should provide a workable option with this small, minimum spacing maintained.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0
cletus
Mark_Seaton wrote:
cletus wrote:

I have limited options in placement and the primary spot would require the submersive to point drivers forward and aft. (In the right corner of the room. ) Forward into the livingroom which is perfect but aft. into the wall. Would this be a problem and if not, how many inches can it be minimum from the wall? Thanks!


Hi cletus,

As Mike's system is a good example of, the SubMersive can certainly have either driver fire "into" a wall or corner.  Assuming there is some open area above the sub (not under a shelf or bookcase), you only need 3" or more of clearance.  The corner placement shouldn't provide a workable option with this small, minimum spacing maintained.

Sorry but I'm confused about the last statement.
"The corner placement shouldn't provide a workable option with this small, minimum spacing maintained."

Quote 0 0
Mark_Seaton
cletus wrote:
Mark_Seaton wrote:
cletus wrote:

I have limited options in placement and the primary spot would require the submersive to point drivers forward and aft. (In the right corner of the room. ) Forward into the livingroom which is perfect but aft. into the wall. Would this be a problem and if not, how many inches can it be minimum from the wall? Thanks!


Hi cletus,

As Mike's system is a good example of, the SubMersive can certainly have either driver fire "into" a wall or corner.  Assuming there is some open area above the sub (not under a shelf or bookcase), you only need 3" or more of clearance.  The corner placement shouldn't provide a workable option with this small, minimum spacing maintained.

Sorry but I'm confused about the last statement.
"The corner placement shouldn't provide a workable option with this small, minimum spacing maintained."


Whoops!    I had changed what I was typing from "shouldn't be a problem" to "should provide a workable option."  Obviously I didn't quite edit that correctly.

This type of placement is completely acceptable and expected.
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0
Mark_Seaton

Mark_Seaton wrote:
The current offer of $1995, with shipping included(see details here) will extend for orders placed before August 15th.

Hi All,

I have received some inquiries about the time frame of the free shipping offer.  Recently I have been swamped with both work on my products, AV123's as well as some other unique design projects I have been brought in on.  As such I have decided to extend the free shipping offer out to all orders placed before Art Sonneborn's meet on September 29th.  I will update the purchase threads with this cut-off date.

I will be travelling a lot this month and next, so there may be a few delays in repsonses here and there.  I just received another run of cabinets, and have a handful ready to be loaded.  Current lead time is about 10-12 days to ship.  Sometimes I can ship sooner, sometimes it takes a little longer.  Your patience is appreciated.

Best Regards,
Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
sales@seatonsound.net
773-290-8436
Quote 0 0