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mbovaird

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 1
Posted 06/25/12 Reply with quote  #1 
As a proud owner of two submersives for over a year now, I would like to add how wonderful they sound and how they have exceeded my expectations.

Most importantly (and I know this has been stated before), dealing with Mark Seaton has been an absolute pleasure.  He has answered all of my stupid questions and has been extremely helpful.   I have been recommending his subs to anyone who will listen and will continue to do so.  

If you are reading this forum, looking at buying a Seaton Sub (or two or three or four...) and wondering if the subs are great (they are) and if you will receive outstanding customer service (you will).

Just my two cents....
MikeDuke

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 1,013
Posted 06/26/12 Reply with quote  #2 
Two cents added.  Mark has been great to work with and has IMHO gone above and beyond what I ever expected him to do.  This is on many fronts which I won't mention but I will say that without his nudging, I would not be where I am today.
Truthfully, I have had other people help me but it was always in conjunction with Mark's advice.    BTW I have had my sub since 2007.  
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DaveSmith

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 3
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #3 
I am glad you guys had good experiences.  Mike, I had read about your good experiences before I ordered.  Your reviews were part of the reason I ordered.  Unfortunately I have had nothing but trouble in dealing with Mark.

I paid for 2 submersive HP's in mid November but did not receive them until late January.  My biggest issue was that Mark refused to respond to my phone calls or emails asking for an update.  I was polite and he was aparently too busy to deal with someone who paid him almost $5,000 in advance.  This was a luxury purchase and I expected to be treated very well.

When I did receive the product there was no audio toolkit.  After several emails one of his staff said they were backordered (this is 5 months ago).  To this day I have not received this item.  As a result, I have never been able to get them dialed in properly.  I paid Mark in full 7 months ago.  The audio toolkit was part of the purchase price.  If he can't supply this item he should issue me a refund for the value.

I am glad some of you were treated well but I have not been.
MikeDuke

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 1,013
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #4 
Sorry about your problems Dave.  I was also asked to put a deposit down and I was very unsure about doing so since I have never done that before.  I also understand your frustration in communicating  with Mark.  I can also say that at times I tried to get through to Mark, after the down payment and it took a bit of time for him to get back to me.  To be honest, I felt like you.  But it eventually happened.  I had them installed several months after the down paymement.  Ordered in Late 2006.  Saw Mark at CES 2007 and gave a deposit and I think I had him install it Mar 2007.  You delivery time was three months.  That does not seem that bad at all when I look back at how long I waited.  I guess my wait time was three months as well from the point I put a downpayment on them.  Paymemt in Jan, had them by Mar.  But I get you on response thing.  

So you have the subs now correct?  You are just waiting for the tool kit?  When I ordered way back then this was not even an option.  I hope you can get it so you can get them dialed in the right way.  They are great subs and it's a shame that this event is not letting you enjoy them the way you should.  I know whatever I say will not make you feel any better about this.  It seems, as you noted above, you read about my good experiece.  I guess I never really harped on the other stuff because once I had it in my room, I really did not care about the other stuff because I was to busy enjoying it.  But that's just me.  I hope it all works out.
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PeterK

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 14
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #5 
Mark is not a large corporation with loads of employees. I can sure understand that his priority time is manufacturing and shipping. It seems that Mark realized better communications were needed and now he has a thread showing lead times, availability, pricing, etc that he keeps updated so people are well informed up front. I have yet to place an order as this will be a huge investment for me too. it is coming. :-)
MikeDuke

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 1,013
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #6 
I agree with Pete.  Mark, while he has streamlined his process and gathered more help, is basically a one man operation.  I am sure that he does try his best because word of mouth is huge for him I think.  
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I simply love this stuff.
calentz

Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 152
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #7 
E-mails are sometimes a little slow, but I have never had a problem reaching him by phone. (He even routes his business phone to his cell phone when he is not in town) Search for my posts for my other comments on how he is over the top.
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Carl
hifiaudio2

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 131
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #8 
Yep email is tough to get him on,  but I think I have only gotten a voicemail maybe one time.  All my other calls were answered and he spent as much time as needed on the phone with me,  never saying he needed to go.

To me,  its easier to sit down and answer an email when I am busy rather than take a call, but Mark obviously works differently, and that is perfectly fine.  He has always taken the time to listen to my unique situations and issues and offer advice or a solution.
Blackdevil77

Registered: 04/07/12
Posts: 100
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #9 
I never had a problem getting in touch with Mark. My interactions with Seaton sound have been fairly recent, I just took delivery 2 weeks ago yesterday of my Cat 12Cs and 2 SubM HPs. Everytime I sent an e-mail, I got a response within 2 days, sometimes in the same day. The one time I called, I got an answer. No problems on this front here. 100% satisfied customer. The XLR-RCA adapters were backordered, but they got them out to me asap, even before they said they would be shipped out. 
PeterK

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 14
Posted 06/27/12 Reply with quote  #10 
As to the audio toolkit, I believe Mark started adding it as a setup assistant and as such, I sure wouldn't be placing "$value" on it as a complaint. He will provide it when he can get them. I sure wouldn't make my purchasing decision based upon that item. 
DaveSmith

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 3
Posted 06/28/12 Reply with quote  #11 

To me there were a number of communication problems.  If I could do it again I would have ordered from a competitor.  The audio toolkit has value to me because the sound from two HP's in my small room has never been all that impressive.  I have waited patiently for 5 months hoping to receive the toolkit and it would make the sound better.  Every time I listen to the subs I am reminded that I do not have this toolkit and perhaps the sound is suffering significantly as a result. 
gpburns

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 207
Posted 06/28/12 Reply with quote  #12 
am I missing something - you researched enough to buy 2 submersives
- best value for dollar subs on the planet
yet are waiting on a cd to dial them in - what are you looking to do   
suggest start a thread listing equipment , room size, what issue you are having etc 
will get you sorted out
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Gary
audioguy

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 534
Posted 06/28/12 Reply with quote  #13 
I agree with Gary.  Tell us somethings about your room and let  us see if we can assist!

FWIW, I set up my SubMersives WITHOUT that disk (I do have it).  There are LOTS of other resources available to accomplish sub set up
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FOH

Registered: 09/25/10
Posts: 238
Posted 06/28/12 Reply with quote  #14 
I fully understand the desire for the Audio Toolkit.

I personally wouldn't make a purchasing decision based on it, but similarly, I would be disappointed in not getting it. In one of my first e-mail exchanges with Mark/Kelly, I stated something like be sure to include the Toolkit disc with my shipment, or something to that effect. I really enjoy test discs, and that one appears to possess superb content. I was really disappointed to learn it was back-ordered.

Clearly, of the myriad of test discs availed to the industry, it was included for good reason. But, if it's out of stock, and they can't restock the disc for whatever reason, I understand.

All said, the community here is more than willing to help any SubMersive owner get the most out of their product. Some rooms don't require a great deal of effort to get a nice, well blended and optimized subwoofer system. However, many rooms are problematic, and can posses unique characteristics that others forum members may have previously encountered, and they recognize the issue and contribute accordingly. I've seen countless examples of shared experiences helping facilitate getting to the bottom of an otherwise difficult scenario. 

Myself, I've benefited on more than one occasion from others audio advice, merely because they benefit from a different perspective. Besides, it's always cool to read about what others are up against, and how they've navigated up to that point.      

Everyone would be glad to help.   
FOH

Registered: 09/25/10
Posts: 238
Posted 06/28/12 Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSmith
To me there were a number of communication problems.  If I could do it again I would have ordered from a competitor.  


This has got me to thinking....


The bad thing about Seaton Sound is it's such a small operation.
The good thing about Seaton Sound is that it's such a small operation.


Additionally, you mentioned competitors,...the landscape is relatively barren in my opinion. I typed out a much longer post, detailing the competitive subs out there, but I deleted it,...not wanting to diminish others work. 
DaveSmith

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 3
Posted 06/29/12 Reply with quote  #16 
I appreciate the offer from those wanting to help.  I may take you up on the offer but was hoping to take a shot on the basic setup myself first.  With this disk of course.

This is more about principle than the disk at this point.  A small company is supposed to make you feel important not insignificant.  The primary reason I gave the business to Seaton is because it is a small business and I wanted to support the little guy.  I actually had my mind previously set on another product.  I won't bother mentioning it and getting into a debate at this point but suffice to say I heard it and think it was an excellent product. 

Not everyone has had a great experience with Seaton and I needed to share my perspective.
audioguy

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 534
Posted 06/29/12 Reply with quote  #17 
If the Audio Tool Kit is back ordered, what is Mark supposed to do.  I have a friend who purchased 2 HP's and he didn't get his either for the same reason.

I can see being marginally dissappointed but im surprised you feel so strongly that you wish you had purchased something else!
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calentz

Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 152
Posted 06/29/12 Reply with quote  #18 
If memory serves me correctly, the toolkit has been on backorder before & when it became available Mark took care of his costumers.
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Carl
JohnnyV

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 144
Posted 06/29/12 Reply with quote  #19 
Note .. you'll need more than the toolkit dvd to get much use of it.  Do you have an SPL meter or any measuring equipment?   Those will be key.   Furthermore, any ability to EQ or adjust other than delay and level?    There is no magic in this test disk that is going to make your submersive setup gel just by running a disk.  99% of the effort is going to come from your own efforts here.  It pains me that you aren't thrilled end over end of your dual subs because of a lack of some test tones.  Those are killer subs..  Of course that doesn't fix the fact that you expected it and haven't received it yet.  

On to getting your stuff working to the max.  Except for a specific test tone combo, I've yet to see anything special about the toolbox dvd that can't be found on any other AV setup disk or even using built in test tones in your AVR.  The specific tones that I'm referring to on the disk have nothing to do with the LFE(sub) channel anyway.  It's just a really useful test set for dialing in surround delay settings relative to mains.

Back to the subs...

Step 1.  Placement is EVERYTHING.  no matter what brand you bought.  If your subs aren't coupling to the room in a way that is delivering good energy to your listening position you're starting with your arms tied behind your back.

Start with a single sub (don't over complicate this with duals).  Move a single around the room typically along a wall boundary until you achieve this.  Some trial and error and the ability to measure with REW or omnimic can go along way to showing what's going on.. but it is possible to get good results brute forcing this and going by ear.  O

2. Once you find the good spot you can add the 2nd.. either in the same place to add output to what you have..  or in an alternate location to hopefully add but possibly more importantly to smooth a response issue with the "good" location.  Even the "good" location will have some weak nodal regions.

3. EQ shape if you can...  otherwise skip.

4. Get your levels set right.. 

5. Integrate with the mains..  set crossovers appropriately...  use sub distance setting for best smooth integration in the crossover region..  NOTE: it's probably not the physical distance you'd expect it to be if you measured with a tape measure...  This is tough to do with out measurement gear.

6. Reset overall channel levels to match after all adjustments.. EQ or otherwise..  

ENJOY.

This is a bit oversimplified and perhaps not all in the perfect order.  but the key is you should be getting amazing performance and you can get very far with some thoughtful execution and mostly time and effort.  The key is getting them physically in the right spots to begin.  The toolkit dvd isn't the answer.

Lastly.....  If you are using some type of autosetup like AUDSY..  DON"T.  It hopefully will get you in the ballpark but there are too many variables at stake with rooms and starting gains and the get what you get approach..  Sure it may help the average system with the average plug and play consumer but you have 2 submersives.. you owe it to yourself to give it a real go of it.  I've seen solutions like AUDSY take the life out of a system far more often than help.  The fact is it's a computer trying to squash a response into some predefined shape..  It doesn't hear like you do.. and therefore can't use the same discretion on a case by case basis.  What works in one room doesn't mean it's right in another..  Given the choice I'd say you're better without it than with it.. even if the without results aren't perfect.
gpburns

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 207
Posted 06/29/12 Reply with quote  #20 
not sure what AUDSY is
but if have anything with Audyssey XT  and up - highly recommend its use
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Gary
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