Seaton Sound Discussion Forum

Are Catalysts a proper upgrade for active studio monitors (eg. Genelec)?

TheLion — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:54:35 GMT

I will start with describing my situation: I am currently using Genelec 1037C studio monitos as main speakers in a dedicated HT setup. These are 420W 3-way monitors with a single 12" bass driver (vented), and a VERY good 5" mid-range (probably still the best I have ever heard). DCW increases efficiency and provides the desired directivity.

Now Mark - sell me your Catalyst 12Cs as upgrades!

But I need to be convinced that your Catalysts are really an upgrade for a proven studio monitor from one of the most respected manufactures (who does what it does for 30+ years) - and that without even hearing them. Though sell!

What I like about Genelecs:

1) Piece of Mind. The build quality combined with being designed for professional 24/7 duty. And if one part fails I know I will get replacements for the next 20 years (in case of the 1037C).

What happens if one part of your Catalysts fails down the road (in a couple of years)? Will I be able to get eg. a driver replacement from the original manufacturer? Being from Europe complicates things further I guess...

2) Detail and definition. These monitors - being professional tools - are as revealing as it gets IMHO.

A proper co-axial design has the potential to be even more focused and detailed. How does the co-ax driver of the Catalyst compare to a studio monitor in this regard?

3) DCW - the waveguide seems to be very beneficial (less room coloration because of the controlled directivity, better on- and off axis response, increased efficiency simular to a horn design).

Why did you decide against such an approach with the Catalyst (although the mid-range driver of the Catalyst acts as somekind of DCW for the HF driver)? Why LOTS of amp-power instead of a high efficiency horn design for example - please elaborate!

4) DSP - my 1037C is an analog monitor. But all the new models which would be an alternative to the Catalyst integrate a DSP which also allows for user EQ (manual and automatic, pretty sophisticated parametric EQ with plenty of notch and shelve filters)

This is a huge benefit IMHO. To have a PEQ integrated in each speaker makes probably a bigger real world difference than any difference between speakers with simular specs.

I know the Catalysts DSP integrates a PEQ of some sort. Why is it not consumer accessible (at least as a hidden feature for people who know what they do ;-) )?

What I don't like about the Genelecs:

5) Imaging is great - very focused. BUT it doesn't build a huge, "cinema-like" sound stage. I had the Klipsch THX Ultra 2 set before and those had this "huge, live" kind of sound. So the sound stage of the Genelecs is too focused for my HT preferences.

I know that "huge" and "live" are words I keep hearing when people describe the sound of the Catalysts - but do they loose image focus and opt for a more "enveloping, diffuse" sound stage? How do they sound in a well acoustically treated room (like mine)?

How do they sound in a near-/mid- field application? After being used to a revealing studio monitor in the near-/mid field (sitting approx. 8 feet away) I cannot go back - the level of detail you hear is just staggering. It is like using headphones in that regard.

What is the "optimum listening distance" for the Catalyst?

6) I guess I wish that the Genelecs don't sound so "well behaved", somewhat clinical - a bit more "exciting". Don't get me wrong - when it comes to studio monitos Genelec has one of the most "exciting" sound signatures around - very forward, very dynamic, very detailed. BUT they still remain a tool.

How does the sound signature of the Catalyst differ from high end studio monitors?

Any input is welcome and much appreciated! Thanks.

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

Which finish to get?

lonewolf — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 23:59:30 GMT

Hey Guys.,

I am in the market for 1 or 2 submersives and i am having a difficult time picking out a finish. Its pretty much the first time i am buying brand new where i have a choice of all the finishes available (i mostly buy 2nd hand or brand new on special where its only 1 finish left). I am hung up between red cherry, merlot, golden cherry and black oak for various reasons. I presume Black Oak is the safest finish because its the most neutral but also probably the most dull. I dont really have any real decor at the moment in my room, they are of various colours. So I would most likely only get a Black Oak finish for safety reasons in case I ever needed to resell it.

The other finishes are more in what i was probably after. I was leaning towards the Red Cherry or Merlot since they do seem to look a bit shinier and flasher than the Golden Cherry. I guess what i was after was other peoples viewpoints on which finishes they liked the most and looked the nicest for the sub. On a minor note also was curious on what people thought was the best finish to get if i wanted to resell it or if i needed it to fit in with a random decor later...In case i ever decided to move in with the girlfriend....

The current finishes i have with my other speakers and subs are all over the place. Some of my speakers are golden cherry, the others are in between a golden cherry and a merlot (they are cherry but sort of a darker golden / redder golden look, hard to explain). My subs are either a similar finish to the latter colour i just mentioned or they are black oak or they are a dark red finish (probably in between a merlot and a espresso).

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

How hot do you run your SubMersive?

Bunga999 — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:00:08 GMT

SubMersive owners just curious to see if anyone is running their SubMersive hot compared to the rest of your system and by how much.

Also please specify if you are using an EQ such as Audyessy, AntiMode and etc.

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

Are there Catalyst revisions with upgraded components (-> DSP engine) out there?

TheLion — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:33:08 GMT

Now that the Submersive got an upgrade I would like to ask what the policy with the Catalysts is - are they a set design and todays Catalysts are exactly the same as in 2008? Or are certain components upgraded over the time?

This is relevant a) for systems which are upgraded over time (adding additional Catalysts) and b) in regard to the DSP engine. This is the component which isn't quite up to date today when you consider the Catalyst DSP engine to be available from 2007 (or even before that).

And DSP technology is improving all the time - and those changes can be very relevant to Catalysts performance.

So Mark - are you waiting to introduce something like a HP/Rev.02/... (even more amp power, updated DSP/DAC/ADC, improved drivers) Catalyst some day or is the specification a moving target and improving continuously?

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

New sub from MFW-15 Drivers

mojave — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:29:23 GMT

I'm interested in trying some DIY stuff. After I get my second MFW-15 Turbo Kit, I will have two drivers available from the original batch of MFW-15's. I'd like to try to build something for a bass deprived friend or family member or even replace the Hsu VTF-2 in my office.

Could these both be used in a sealed sub with a single amp? Maybe some of the returned Submersive amps could be programmed and sold for use with a pair of these drivers.

A dual driver kit would help those with single drivers sell theirs and make them more likely to upgrade to the Turbo.

At the very least, are the parameters available for the driver?

Forum: Motor City Custom Audio

In the works: UFW-12 - Amp ONLY Hot Rod

Mark_Seaton — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:12:17 GMT

Hi Guys,

After noticing this thread in a quick glance today, I thought it would be worthwhile to start this thread and feel for some interest in a very simple upgrade that will give you a much better result and sound quality than the original UFW-12. Due to the original driver and amplifier, we can't get from the 12" what we can with the Big Block 15" kit, but we can most certainly make it sound better, play deeper, louder and fix the limiting/clipping problem it has with deep bass content.

We will have Kevin do the modifications to the amplifier. For many reasons I won't be releasing the modifications done, as they are significant (there's a lot to fix!). The result will be a sealed 12" subwoofer you will be happy to use and enjoy for both music and home theater.

More to come.

Forum: Motor City Custom Audio

ULW/UFW-10 upgrade interest?

sandbagger — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:22:23 GMT

Ok folks, I know there has been some talk but I would like to gauge actual interest in a premium upgrade.

As mark mentioned, for the stock driver, its not worth it to do anything more than just drop the PE SA240W -B and just drop and go.

The premium upgrade will probably geared toward duals as the amp I am thinking of using should power 2 with little to no problem and will also include 2 new HIGH PERFORMANCE DRIVERS!!! The amp will be optimized to work with the new drivers and cabinet size. Think Turbo kit but for the UF/UL-10 subs.

With this setup we are thinking we can get about 2X the output(5-6db gain) along with a much increased sound quality and much more behaved at higher output while digging DEEPER!

I am not sure of price right now, but it wont be cheap, for duals it will probably be in the area of a single Turbo kit, but this will be for the amp and 2 drivers. I know some of you have singles and while this will work, it wont be a savings of 1/2 the price due to the cost of the amp, just the cost of a single driver.

This kit will be great for those of you using them for 2ch with outboard amps as the amp has rca level stereo inputs and highpass with variable crossover.

I am using this thread to gauge interest, not a definitive yes/no

So who is interested? questions? comments?

Forum: Motor City Custom Audio

Happy Birthday, Mark!

alhull — Thur, 08 Jul 2010 13:22:30 GMT

Have a very happy b-day!

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

MFW TURBO Directions

sandbagger — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 03:03:28 GMT

Ok, I was going to email this out with each kit, but thought this might work better. I will post pictures later, but its pretty straight forward and really wont need them.

Some of this might be easier with a helper.

1. place sub on its back. remove the 4hex screws holding the face plate. There are 4 rubber washers between the face plate and the sub front, you will want to make sure you put these back on.

2. Remove the 8 screws holding the driver in. This brings us to probably the hardest part, getting the driver out. Since this driver is a bit lighter than the new one, you can generally use a small screw driver and lift the edge and then get you finger under it. or you can put something down to protect the edge and slide the screwdriver under it.

3. Lift the driver up and cut the wires.

4. Place the sub on its face. Remove all the screws holding in the amp and adjustment plates.

IF either of the plates are hard to remove try using a razor blade and cut around the edge.

5. Remove the top plate and disconnect the ribbon cable connected to it

6. Remove amp, disconnecting the ribbon cable that goes to the top plate and then pulling the speaker leads out of the hole.

7. Pull the ribbon cable out, you might have to fold the connector on one end over to get it through.

8. Make all sealing surfaces flat as the screws will have pulled up some MDF up into the holes. This is easily done with either sand paper, a large drill bit or countersink bit to just touch the holes, or even a razor knife. It doesn't have to be perfect flat, just close as you will be putting gasket material down.

9. Take the thin gasket material and place it around the rear plate holes.

10. Place the top plate in place and use the 6 small screws, be careful not to over-tighten and stripping the threads out of the wood.

11. Take the bottom plate with the binding posts and wire attached and assemble the binding posts to the plate. Then place the wire through the bottom hole, make sure the wire is inside, then screw the plate down, again do not over-tighten, just good and snug should be fine.

12. Place the sub on its back, placing something under it to protect the binding posts.

13. Take the thicker gasket material and place it on the cabinet.

14. This is where some help would be nice, to make the connections to the driver. Either have someone connect the wires as you hold the driver above the hole or place it on the face of the cabinet with something under it to protect the finish. The driver uses dual voice coils in series and already has a jumper wire installed between a red and black binding post on opposite sides. Connect the Red wire to the red binding post on one side and the Black to the Black post on the opposite side.

15. Place the driver in the hole. Yea easier said than done I generally sit one side down and then with one hand holding the oposite side lower it till I am about 2" from the surface, then very quickly and carefully pull my fingers out and let it drop. When you do this, you want to rotate the driver so the screw holes do not line up with existing holes.

16. You can now move the driver around to center it in the opening.

17. Screw the driver down, again tight is good, but not so tight you strip the holes out.

18. The hard part is done now.

19. Place the amp in your desired location, and hook up speaker wire. I would recommend using 12g wire, and you can use either of the 2 pairs of binding posts on the rear of the amp, it doesnt matter.

20. Switch setting on the rear of the amp: subsonic filter, doesnt matter as it is internally set. Bass Boost, Set to off, it is unmodified so its +3db@25hz Remote Turn On, Set it to your choice.

21. Front Settings: Gain, I have found that about 10 o'clock should be close. FREQ, only works if using the L/R inputs and does nothing if using the LFE input, but set to 200hz if it amuses you. Phase, Start with it at zero, you will have to adjust based on individual settings.

22. EQ, as far as initially I would zero it out, I like to do this by setting the FREQ and BANDWIDTH as low as possible, and setting the level to zero, I have found by testing that zero isn't exactly zero and needs to be just a tinny bit lower.

I think that should just about do it. If anyone has any other tips or think they have a better way to do something feel free to post it up along with any questions.

Forum: Motor City Custom Audio

SubMersive-HP - New orders and upgrades too!

Mark_Seaton — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 03:38:15 GMT

Hi all,

With the 4th of July weekend here, and the first couple delivered to FedEx late yesterday, it's finally time to announce that we are now starting to ship the SubMersive with a new, more powerful amplifier. How much more powerful? Try 2400W.

Many who have ordered or e-mailed about ordering a SubMersive in the past 2 months have been let in on this development, and we have a pile of SubMersives ready for testing and shipping next week, with the remainder of the backlog coming soon after.

The best part here is that our new amplifier comes from the same OEM as our original 1000W SubMersive amplifier, and is packed into the same size cage and faceplate. At first glance, the only obvious indicators of the new amplifier are some differently placed screw heads and a 20A breaker in place of the fuse on the original. The new amplifier is in fact a direct drop in for the original, and we will be offering an upgrade option where you will return your original amplifier for the HP version.

The catch? This design of this amplifier makes it currently only suitable for ~115/120V operation. I don't expect to see an international Voltage version until some time in 2011.

The new fully US made amplifier is quite the beast, and pretty well eliminates any hard amplifier clipping under any condition I've found thus far. Obviously there are limits past which it won't get any louder, but those are higher than the original SubMersive and it is even more graceful when it does reach that limit. Where the most benefit is realized is below 16-20Hz, but there is benefit across the board. The new amplifier does not make one SubMersive HP equal to a pair of originals, but it does make it better.

Addition/update:

With the added robustness and tolerance to over-driving in the new amplifier, I have also put the second DSP program to use. This relates to the PGM SEL, two position switch. While I still recommend the depressed (IN) program for most, I decided to use the extended (OUT) position of the switch to shift the roll off deeper to better match larger rooms or those who listen at lower levels wanting more lift to the bottom end. The response below 15Hz is parallel, but higher in level to the original response, with the +/-3dB window shifting down to 15Hz vs. the 19Hz of the original.

After 4 years of shipping the SubMersive and holding our pricing through absorbing many parts cost increases by streamlining assembly and increasing quantities, the new, much more powerful and fully US made amplifier will come with a price increase to $2295 for the black satin SubMersive. As our amplifier supplier is still ramping up production and there will be a 2-3 week lead time for new SubMersive HP orders, I will offer the original $1995 pricing on the new SubMersive HP through July 16th.

Later this week I will post information on the upgrade process for current owners.

Happy 4th of July!

July 30th Update (price increase schedule changes):

Not surprisingly there has been quite a bit of interest in the limited time intro pricing of the SubMersive HP, and we've been trying to keep up with e-mails and calls. I pleaded and begged Carolyn to make some time to help get everyone answered more quickly this week and the next few. Please note that multi-unit and returning customers still get the $100 savings on these prices!

As I know timing matters with many summer vacations and other expenses, I will be stair-stepping up the price over the next few months:
SubMersive HP Pricing

As of July 17th: $2095 + any finish premium
As of August 31st: $2195 + any finish premium
As of October 2nd: $2295 + any finish premium

The revised dates are more in line with my original intention of having more units in customers hands as we step to $2195 and $2295. Our amplifier supplier is awaiting a few key parts (domestically sourced) to arrive where new orders placed in August should all be shipped by the end of August as we have many amplifiers expected to arrive mid-late August.

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

Is the distance setting in a pre-amp the same as a continuous phase control?

TheLion — Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:57:40 GMT

Because non of Mark's present and upcoming subwoofers have a phase setting of any kind (polarity switch/continuous phase control) I would like to know if the distance setting of a subwoofer channel in a pre-pro does the same thing?

Basically - if you have a pre-amp with individual distance (=delay) settings for multiple subwoofers is it recommended to leave the phase control on the subwoofer at zero and only adjust the distance setting? That would solve my problem with Seaton subs having no phase setting.

Thanks.

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

Detailed dimension drawings for Seaton Sound Products

Mark_Seaton — Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:53:25 GMT

Hi all,

I'll be adding to this over time, but I wanted to quickly throw up an easy place to link to where we'll host the drawings of the products for those who need exact dimensions.

Later I'll add some Google SketchUp files as well, but I haven't had time to create those yet. If anyone else feels inclined to create the general forms in SketchUp from the drawings I have posted, you are welcome to post them.

Catalyst Dimension PDF

SubMersive Dimension PDF

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

Seaton at CEDIA ?

PeterM — Sun, 27 Jun 2010 12:17:10 GMT

I'm still trying to audition Cats (either kind) or Sparks !!

Having just booked to visit CEDIA in September, I'm obviously wondering what opportunites there may be either at the show or elsewhere in Atlanta ?

As always ... will pay beer for an audition !!

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

NEW CAT-8C powered loudspeaker

Mark_Seaton — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:18:13 GMT

Hi All,

This announcement is a little early, but I want to keep from derailing too many other threads as we have already done with some early discussion after a fun leak I made here and some further discussion here.

The vitals:
CAT-8C

Internally tri-amplified (500W-350W-150W) loudspeaker
8" coaxial midrange w/Neodymium magnet 1" HF driver
dual, custom 8" sealed woofers
Intended operating range: 65-20,000 Hz
28" H x 11" W x 11.625" D
65 lbs
Neodymium Magnetic grill retention (no grill pegs!)
$2,495 each + shipping
Premium veneer options now available -
Black Oak finish +$100
Red, Espresso, Merlot and Golden stained cherry wood veneer +$200

We are still awaiting the shipment of woofers, but if those arrive within the next 2 weeks, with any luck we should be shipping in mid-late July.

Some admittedly poor quality sneak peek pics of the black oak samples:

More to come...

Forum: Seaton Sound Central

Seaton Sound Discussion Forum

Recommended EQ solution for Seaton speakers and subwoofers

Are Catalysts a proper upgrade for active studio monitors (eg. Genelec)?

Which finish to get?

How hot do you run your SubMersive?

Are there Catalyst revisions with upgraded components (-> DSP engine) out there?

New sub from MFW-15 Drivers

In the works: UFW-12 - Amp ONLY Hot Rod

ULW/UFW-10 upgrade interest?

Happy Birthday, Mark!

MFW TURBO Directions

SubMersive-HP - New orders and upgrades too!

Is the distance setting in a pre-amp the same as a continuous phase control?

Detailed dimension drawings for Seaton Sound Products

Seaton at CEDIA ?

NEW CAT-8C powered loudspeaker